[treeswarper]

Cumulative effects. Cumulative effects. Everybody else is doing it? Come on. That's the excuse that mothers answer with the Jumping Off The Cliff reply. No, I don't use bug spray. It has to be really horrible before I do. I hate the stuff. I hate the smell and the feel of it and the wondering about what it does. It doesn't last long, so what is the worth? I either tough it out, or wear long pants and long sleeves plus a bug net hat if things are really bad, like inhaling the buggers, or avoid those places. I actually live where they can be annoying, but there is usually a breeze that keeps them in check. Right now I've got several annoying fly bites on my legs from a trip to Oregon, and staying in a river valley. I'll live. I don't spray my lawn or garden with anything. I don't fertilize my lawn. I figure it grows fast enough and I hate mowing. Why would I spray it with a pesticide? Does anybody actually do that? My cat kills the occasional mole. That's enough lawn care. But go ahead. Eventually we'll hear about it polluting the sound. Paranoid? No, just wondering about Leave No Trace ethics for every day living, and living the talk.

[DIYSteve]

^ ^ ^ Speculation You did not answer my question: What is your problems with the numerous studies that find permethrin to be safe if used properly? Do you not use shampoo? Laundry detergent? Thousands of gallons per day of shampoo and laundry suds going down the drain poses a far greater threat to the Sound than does the miniscule amount of permethrin that may get there via washing permethrin-treated garments. Do you drive a car? Runoff from spilled oil and gasoline from everyday vehicle use certainly poses a larger threat than permethrin-treated clothing. If permethrin runoff poses a risk -- and I have yet to see evidence that it does -- your concern should be focused on its use for crop spraying, sheep dip, horse wash, pest control, timber treatment and third world malaria prevention, which collectively represents at least a million times (likely some multiple thereof) more volume than the few drops that might get into water supplies from permethrin-treated garments.

[joker]

Yup. I'd be up for a bet that we'll never see the Puget Soundkeepers telling us how they've found permethrin in the sound that can be traced to folks spraying clothing in their back yards. But yeah, there's an Exxon Valdez's worth of oil hitting the sound each year from stuff getting out of cars. Lots of medicines from flushing stuff down the toilet. Micro-beads of plastic from cosmetics in every scoop of Sound water now. Etc. Not that this is an excuse to add one more insult, but it does provide some perspective on a little garment spraying with something that's used on an industrial scale elsewhere.

[Ski]

[coldrain108]

so is this primarily for tick protection? Skeets are easy enough to keep at bay by covering up with untreated clothing/head nets. Same with flies. Maybe in Alaska where there are more skeeters than oxygen in the air.

[DIYSteve]

[HitTheTrail]

Is it really necessary to do your socks also if you are wearing treated long pants and/or low trail gaiters?

[boot up]

[AlpineRose]

I would think gaitors treated with permethrin - DIY or otherwise - would work well against ticks.

[Navy salad]

I just ordered probably a lifetime supply (32 ozs at 36.8% permethrin) from Amazon for me and probably everyone I know for a little less than $23. I figure this is enough to make a little over 10 GALLONS of 0.9% solution.

[Schenk]

Does anyone have insight as to how durable DIY Permethrin is on 100% nylon or 100% polyester garments?

[contour5]

[DIYSteve]

[Schenk]

Thanks! All I have ever treated myself was cotton-poly shirts and pants. I have some button up nylon shirts for hiking and fly-fishing that i wanted to treat and wondered if it was going to even last a couple days of rough use and scruffing through wet brush.

[Ski]

interesting thread. let me interject something here: I did the DIY water-repellent thing with a couple items several months ago, and after lengthy conversations with both a pretty knowledgeable employee at REI and a person at "Nikwax" learned something interesting: Your washing machine is leaving a detergent residue on your clothing. The more times it's washed, the more of that stuff builds up. The more stuff builds up, the less absorbent the fibers. The less absorbent the fibers, the less effective a wash-in DIY waterproofing treatment is going to be. I would guess that would also apply to DIY bug repellent treatment. So, what I did first (with both the 20-year-old anorak and 10-year-old parka) was to launder them with about two cups of Trisodium Phosphate (not the fake "TSP substitute" - the real stuff - which can be difficult to find.) Trisodium Phosphate is the only cleaning agent that really rinses clean and doesn't leave behind a residue - the reason pro window washers use it. Ran the stuff through 3 rinse cycles after laundering and then applied the DIY "Nikwax" water repellent treatment in the washing machine. Maybe overkill, but the end results were far better than what I had expected, and much better than what the Nikwax phone rep told me to expect (considering the age of the garments.)