Forum Index > Full Moon Saloon > Car chase and shoot-out 12/6/2015
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Cyclopath
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Cyclopath
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PostWed Dec 09, 2015 1:44 pm 
I don't know whether many of you saw this. It took place in the U District and to the north.
I drive home on one of the roads in the video every day, getting on to the UW Bridge. Between the way the lanes narrow, and the merges, it's always a bottleneck, you have to slow way down here. So it's really crazy to see the guy speed through, and the police after him. I bet the toxicology report will be interesting.

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contour5
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PostWed Dec 09, 2015 4:32 pm 
Apparently the guy had a habit of leading the police on high speed car chases. Lucky nobody else was badly hurt, despite all the collision damage. Eerily reminiscent of the Nightrider's attempted getaway in the original Kennedy-Miller production of Mad Max. White knuckle adrenaline pumping as the perp roared past Hardwicks while going like 200 miles an hour against one-way traffic on Roosevelt. By the time they smoked him in Wedgewood, the Camaro was basically a rolling trash heap. Reckon we'll save money on the prosecution this time around...

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Brucester
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PostWed Dec 09, 2015 6:10 pm 
Stop chasing then the thrill would be gone? Chasing seems primitive..... Dangerous to everyone.

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Jaberwock
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PostThu Dec 10, 2015 9:22 am 
Brucester wrote:
Stop chasing then the thrill would be gone? Chasing seems primitive..... Dangerous to everyone.
I agree. Seems like they could have followed from a distance with a helicopter so the guy wouldn't have been going so fast / shooting and waited for a more opportune time to take the driver into custody (not in the city with bystanders).

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Cyclopath
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PostThu Dec 10, 2015 9:57 am 
I had the same thought about a helicopter. I hate driving in the city because of all the danger on a normal day. I'm always worried about hitting a pedestrian or cyclist or a driver who does something erratic. Somebody coming too fast the wrong way at me would scare the crap out of me.

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Lono
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PostThu Dec 10, 2015 10:32 am 
I disagree. The guy was primed for violence against others anywhere from start to finish. The final shootout was a horrific hail of gunfire, and if he was willing to shoot cops he'd have little impetus to avoid shooting you or me. The mythical helicopter in the air isn't always available or feasible for remote monitoring of violent folks.

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Randito
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PostThu Dec 10, 2015 11:07 am 
Second guessing the police in this situation is problematic. We don't have all the information that they did and even if we did -- we would also have the benefit of 20/20 hindsight and time to think. Its possible that the police made some choices that contributed to the escalation or they may have given the guy every opportunity to scale back and he didn't. I suspect there will be a lengthy investigation -- hopefully it will provide more insight into how this mess came about. Its too bad the one guy died, grateful that more people were not hurt.

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Bird in Hand
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PostThu Dec 10, 2015 2:52 pm 
Re: the proverbial helicopter SPD doesn't have any. King County Sheriff does, but availability is often a question. TV news copters are not for pursuit or surveillance and also may not be available at a moments notice. The priority was, and needed to be, stopping a violent armed man who threatened the lives of innocent bystanders as well as driving against traffic on Roosevelt. This guy fired on police, apparently from a moving vehicle which, unlike TV or the movies is an excellent way to kill innocent people because the firing is wildly inaccurate. The guy was a direct menace to everyone along his route. Waiting or following from a distance is much harder because the guy is obviously unpredictable. And, where, in the North end of Seattle is a safe place to pull him over?

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Seventy2002
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PostThu Dec 10, 2015 3:19 pm 
Jaberwock wrote:
Seems like they could have followed from a distance with a helicopter so the guy wouldn't have been going so fast / shooting and waited for a more opportune time to take the driver into custody (not in the city with bystanders)
Seattle doesn't have a helicopter. King County does but their air unit averages only about 1200 flight hours/year. That means they're not there about 87% of the time. Since the suspect had already threatened people with a deadly weapon and stolen a car at gunpoint before police arrived, I don't see how you can recommend they wait until he left town before intervening.

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Cyclopath
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PostThu Dec 10, 2015 4:06 pm 
Lono wrote:
I disagree. The guy was primed for violence against others anywhere from start to finish. The final shootout was a horrific hail of gunfire, and if he was willing to shoot cops he'd have little impetus to avoid shooting you or me.
Bird in Hand wrote:
This guy fired on police, apparently from a moving vehicle which, unlike TV or the movies is an excellent way to kill innocent people because the firing is wildly inaccurate.
I only know what's in the video. Based on that, the guy didn't fire his weapon until the chase was underway. If there hadn't been a chase, no shots would have been fired. I don't agree that if the guy was willing to shoot at his pursuers he would automatically want to shoot at me for no reason. Of course, logic doesn't apply to crazy people, they tend to be unpredictable. I bet the autopsy will find alcohol plus something strong and illegal in his blood. It sounds like a helicopter might be a good investment for Seattle's finest.

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contour5
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PostThu Dec 10, 2015 4:13 pm 
On further reflection, I'm sorry the guy was killed. He was obviously unhinged, though, and needed to be stopped. He used his weapon to rob or intimidate people in at least 8 separate locations. In a more perfect world, enforcement drones might have electromagnetically disabled both car and driver and gently restrained the dangerous maniac until a court appointed psychiatrist was able to make him all better. Police gave these details: • Authorities got a report about 12:35 Sunday of a man at Storyville Coffee in the 90 block of Pike Street downtown. He was sweating and acting nervous and manipulating a pistol in his pocket. Coffee shop employees called 911. He left the coffee shop. • He showed up at the Turkish Delight restaurant in the 1900 block of Pike Place a few minutes later. He talked to employees, brandished a pistol and left. • He went into Quicksilver in the 2000 block of First Avenue and ran to the back of the store. An employee confronted him, he produced a pistol and left. • He ended up at the Under the Needle tattoo shop in the 2100 block of Second Avenue. This time he produced two pistols and ordered to be shown to the back door. In an alley behind the tattoo shop, he stole a red Volkswagen Golf at gunpoint. • He drove to the the University of Washington Athletic Center in the 3800 block of Montlake Boulevard Northeast and got there about 1:25 p.m. He forced a man there to give him a red minivan, which he drove north to a Shell station in the 800 block of Northeast 65th Street. He tried to steal a woman's Mercedes, but she ran away. He drove off in the minivan. • At a rental car lot in the 5700 block of Roosevelt Way Northeast, he stole Chevrolet Camaro at gunpoint. • By now, police had found him and chased him through northeast Seattle. An officer rammed into the stolen car near Roosevelt and Northeast 45th Street. The patrol car was wrecked, but an officer tried to chase the Camaro on foot as the suspect drove off. • The chase ended in the Wedgwood neighborhood. A patrol car collided head-on with the Camaro at Northeast 68th Street and 35th Avenue Northeast. A woman in an SUV was nearby, and her vehicle was hit. But she managed to escape unharmed. • Police took cover behind their cruisers. Police say the suspect pointed a gun at officers and began driving toward them. They opened fire. SWAT officers also opened fire. The suspect died in the gunfire. Police said he had two guns. • • • The shooting is under investigation. Twelve officers have been placed on administrative leave, which is standard in a deadly force investigation.

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Backpacker Joe
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PostThu Dec 10, 2015 6:41 pm 
Jaberwock wrote:
Brucester wrote:
Stop chasing then the thrill would be gone? Chasing seems primitive..... Dangerous to everyone.
I agree. Seems like they could have followed from a distance with a helicopter so the guy wouldn't have been going so fast / shooting and waited for a more opportune time to take the driver into custody (not in the city with bystanders).
Ya, that's really smart. So you set a precedence that all criminals have to do is get into their cars and take off and they're home free!

"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide." — Abraham Lincoln
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meandering Wa
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PostFri Dec 11, 2015 7:06 am 
sounds like he was flying high on something bad if businesses in the Pike / Belltown called him in. I bet the police sirens warned peds and drivers and perhaps avoided a tragic collision

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kbatku
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PostFri Dec 11, 2015 8:43 am 
There was a similar chase over here a few years ago and the police eventually terminated because it was too dangerous. The perp didn't stop though and kept on speeding until he t-boned a car, killing the two occupants.

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wolffie
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PostFri Dec 11, 2015 10:53 am 
RandyHiker wrote:
Its too bad the one guy died
I must be becoming a bigot, because I'm having a hard time understanding why it's too bad when people like this die.

Some people have better things to do with their lives than walking the dog. Some don't.
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