[#19]

Today’s NORTHWEST WEEKEND section of the Seattle Times has a full page cover photo from Hidden Lake Pk in the North Cascades National Park and a feature story about that hike and other “fall hike” recommendations like Yellow Aster, Railroad Grade, Hannegan. The caption for photo of the highest Hidden Lake Peak states, “is easier than it looks”. True statement. But not sure if agree with advertising that to the masses. These places get hammered at times due to their popularity and have been in guidebooks for decades. But, it makes me bristle to see what amounts to an advertisement for these already highly-used areas in a newspaper with a circulation as wide as the Seattle Times. What is the purpose other than to sell newspapers? Given that I have posted a recent trip report, complete with photos of a trip in the North Cascades National Park, does it make me a hypocrite to object to articles like this? If so, why?

[Dslayer]

Well as to being a hypocrite-you're not...When I've posted trip reports I figure that I'm sharing with a select group of people who share similar interests-if a trip report I've made has inspired someone to investigate one of my favorite spots I'd be pretty pleased---then someone with similar sensiblities to mine (armed or not!) would have probably gained the same enjoyment I did. I'm guessing that you have a smiliar object in mind. The paper does what the paper does for entirely different reasons without an element of consideration for how an article might impact a given spot-and to a considerably larger number of people.

[Lead Dog]

More times than I can count, just before I've gone one a hike that I have planned for months either Backpacker Mag. or the Seattle Times have written a report about how beautiful the place is.

[Sore Feet]

Your posting the trip report makes you no more a hypocrite than me posting pictures and info about "secret" waterfalls and advocating that only certain people visit them. In both cases, we're targeting a specific audience. I try to make it clear that some situations are just not acceptable for sunday afternoon family hiking. Likewise, I doubt that someone who gets tired from hiking the Grove of the Patriarchs loop wouldn't be caught dead going cross country to Azure Lake. Plus, the newspaper is read by a helluva lot more people than my website, or your trip reports...

[Tom]

It may have a short term impact on how many people go up there, but how many people are going to go there a year from now because of that full page picture? Not many IMO. I suppose "too much" traffic on one weekend might have a long term impact, but that hike from what I understand is a little tougher than the usual fare. Having said that, I've been to some places in the past 3 months that I have not posted photos of because I am concerned about the impact. Does that make me a hypocrite or just older and wiser?

[catwoman]

Tom, you're "advertising" to a different type of crowd when you "advertise" here. When it's in the Seattle Times, you've got all types reading it. Trip reports in the Times may draw some non-hikers or only occasional hikers out there. These are people who often don't know outdoors etiquette or skills. When you post HERE, you are advertising to people who frequent the outdoors. I think it's a big difference in the type of crowd you advertise to.

[Stefan]

Of course you're a hypocrite with trip reports. I post trip reports too causing people to go to these places. Creating books causes people to go to these places. Televisions shows cause people to go to these places. The creation of Green Trails maps causes people to go to these places. In fact you are one of "the people" that goes to these places.

[Tom]

It's easy to make the generalization that use of discretion is tantamount to selfishness and greed. I initially made that generalization myself and so don't take offense when others mistakenly draw that conclusion. In general, I would agree with George's philosophy. I'm guessing George also made a distinction between "advertising" and "withholding" when it came to fragile places.

[#19]

Stefan wrote:

[Tom]

tk-421, I presume those quotes are my replies to someone asking me for information on that hypothetical destination? If so, my response would likely be... "It is a very beautiful place. When you go there you'll understand why I was hesitant to post photos even though it killed me not to. After much debate, I decided not to advertise this place because I felt the next person deserved to experience it in essentially the same state that I did. If it were another "x" hour drive from Seattle or another "y" miles from the road I might have reached a different conclusion. Please treat it with care and respect, as I did." In regards to the advocacy argument, I feel there are more than enough pictures on the web to encourage advocacy. That is the least of my concerns. Also, just to clarify, I do not support "hiding" places. I make a distinction between that and deciding not to advertise a place for its own good and the benefit of those who happen to visit in the future.

[Stefan]

[Allison]

I write TRs about places that are already crowded. Someone paying attention to my TRs would think I never go anywhere any good. On the other hand, I have, and will continue to, provide detailed route information to people one-on-one. Sometimes I ask them if they wouldn't mind doing the same. There are number of places that are similar in quality and difficulty to the Enchantments in the Cascades, and I'd like to see them stay uncrowded and unregulated. Someone will always tell you if there is a way in to a place you've spied on the map, or in Lakes Of Washington. Sure it's selfish, but who cares! There is nothing finer than having some windswept high lake all to yourself. I feel no moral obligation to broadcast that I have 'discovered' some new great spot, and as a matter of fact, we've probably all been pleasantly surprised to find a route expected to be cross-country had a path to show you the way of least resistance.