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Humptulips Member
Joined: 08 Nov 2012 Posts: 234 | TRs | Pics
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Bedivere wrote: | It also raises the question - is Fisher fur still being used (farm raised Fishers?), or is any clothing based on their fur that you find vintage stuff? |
Yes fisher are still being used although I doubt many are made into gloves.
Current prices in the country to a trapper are about $50 to $70 for females and $40 to $55 for males. Males have a larger pelt but females have silkier fur. The reports quote a top price of $80.
Those fisher are coming from Canada and the north east/great lakes regions.
I am not aware of any fisher farms anywhere.
I should add all fur prices are in a terrible slump right now with most furs being sold at only 10% to 25% of what they were three years ago.
Reasons being the Russian markets being essentially closed off, High dollar, low ruble, Ukrainian sanctions, Low oil prices and a virtual collapse of the Russian economy.
I should expect fisher prices to triple if the fur market ever picks up but that is likely to be several years away.
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Snowbrushy Member
Joined: 23 Jul 2003 Posts: 6670 | TRs | Pics Location: South Sound |
Humptulips wrote: | Those fisher are coming from Canada and the north east/great lakes regions. |
I believe that the fisher reintroduction to the Olympics were greatly helped by a BC trappers association. I've wondered why? It can't be that they actually want to trap the fisher again here, like the HBC. Is it that they are like Trout Unlimited and actually do positive things?
A Trout Unlimited group doing positive things.
Fort Nisqually bastion and extra entrance
Oh Pilot of the storm who leaves no trace Like thoughts inside a dream Heed the path that led me to that place Yellow desert stream.
Oh Pilot of the storm who leaves no trace Like thoughts inside a dream Heed the path that led me to that place Yellow desert stream.
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Humptulips Member
Joined: 08 Nov 2012 Posts: 234 | TRs | Pics
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Yes trappers care about furbearers. Washington State Trappers Association did some lobbying for fisher reintroduction back in the early 90s. Trouble was we did not have any or at least enough money to jump start the whole thing so we kind of got the cold shoulder on the deal.
Our biggest concern with the fisher reintroduction has been what effect it would have on marten on the OP. Marten on the Op are not doing well and I don't think anyone has ever satisfactorily answered why. Back east, fisher have an adverse impact on marten when they have reentered an area. We would have preferred for the fisher reintroduction to have started in the Cascades where the marten are not under such stress.
Eventually yes we would like to have fisher recovered enough to have a season.
Lately I have been trying to get someone to look into the coastal mountain beaver population. They are a key food source for predators and trappers are reporting their numbers are way way down. Nobody seems to care except us.
Maybe hard for you to understand but trappers want to see all furbearers thrive. Well, that is not exactly true. We are not to happy with Opossums and nutria being here.
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Snowbrushy Member
Joined: 23 Jul 2003 Posts: 6670 | TRs | Pics Location: South Sound |
Humptulips wrote: | Washington State Trappers Association did some lobbying for fisher reintroduction back in the early 90s. |
The industrial strength Puget Sound Country trapping began in 1832. Long time..
Fort Nisqually bastion and extra entrance
Thank you for your help. It's about time that we went to work to bring our critters back.
Oh Pilot of the storm who leaves no trace Like thoughts inside a dream Heed the path that led me to that place Yellow desert stream.
Oh Pilot of the storm who leaves no trace Like thoughts inside a dream Heed the path that led me to that place Yellow desert stream.
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Bedivere Why Do Witches Burn?
Joined: 25 Jul 2008 Posts: 7464 | TRs | Pics Location: The Hermitage |
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Bedivere
Why Do Witches Burn?
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Sun May 01, 2016 9:12 am
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Humptulips wrote: | Maybe hard for you to understand but trappers want to see all furbearers thrive. |
This shouldn't be hard for anyone with a brain to understand. How can you pursue your avocation without a healthy population that can support it?
It's too bad too many people lack that much gray matter.
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NacMacFeegle Member
Joined: 16 Jan 2014 Posts: 2653 | TRs | Pics Location: United States |
Trapping is a cruel "sport". I appreciate that modern trappers might be environmentally conscious and care about keeping animal populations healthy, but that doesn't make the practice of trapping any less cruel.
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Snowbrushy Member
Joined: 23 Jul 2003 Posts: 6670 | TRs | Pics Location: South Sound |
NacMacFeegle wrote: | Trapping is a cruel "sport". |
Nac., do you want to move forward at this critical period for the poor fisher? I have some news of wisdom for you from my experience during the Wolf Wars in western Idaho. I learned the hard way but now you don't have too.
Here it is: If you want to move forward towards a reasonable goal for the fisher you need to crawl into bed with the enemy. Yup. Think of it as a late Friday night at the sports bar and the fat, ugly girl next to you is better than nothing.
That's wisdom with a capitol W, I tell you.
Oh Pilot of the storm who leaves no trace Like thoughts inside a dream Heed the path that led me to that place Yellow desert stream.
Oh Pilot of the storm who leaves no trace Like thoughts inside a dream Heed the path that led me to that place Yellow desert stream.
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treeswarper Alleged Sockpuppet!
Joined: 25 Dec 2006 Posts: 11276 | TRs | Pics Location: Don't move here |
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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
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Sun May 01, 2016 1:40 pm
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I don't consider trapping to be a sport. Maybe a hobby, or a way to make some gas money for walking around in the woods, or a way to get rid of a nuisance animal. Who do you call when a beaver is building a dam blocking off your irrigation pipe inlet? The Disney Corporation?
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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contour5 Member
Joined: 16 Jul 2003 Posts: 2963 | TRs | Pics
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contour5
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Sun May 01, 2016 2:20 pm
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Quote: | modern trappers might be environmentally conscious and care about keeping animal populations healthy, but that doesn't make the practice of trapping any less cruel. |
Even capturing the animals for restocking, and then later for testing and monitoring is not without certain unfortunate consequences.
One of the animals listed in the last report linked by gb had to be euthanized after it ripped all of its teeth out trying to escape its cage.
And they are tranquilized using a mixture of 5mg Valium per 1,000 mg of Ketamine. Yikes! Might as well feed them late stage amanita and brown acid. Ketamine is a guaranteed bummer, every single time...
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Snowbrushy Member
Joined: 23 Jul 2003 Posts: 6670 | TRs | Pics Location: South Sound |
Humptulips wrote: | prices in the country to a trapper are about $50 to $70 for females and $40 to $55 for males. |
That's more than some people make a day on welfare. Back in the day you'd trade fisher fur at the fort for beads. Today they sell the trade beads and colorful sea shells in the gift shop at Fort Nisqually.
Oh Pilot of the storm who leaves no trace Like thoughts inside a dream Heed the path that led me to that place Yellow desert stream.
Oh Pilot of the storm who leaves no trace Like thoughts inside a dream Heed the path that led me to that place Yellow desert stream.
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Humptulips Member
Joined: 08 Nov 2012 Posts: 234 | TRs | Pics
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Well it is more then you would make on welfare if you caught one everyday. Even in area with a good fisher population that is unlikely. Trappers tend to look at more empty traps then ones with something in them.
A little off topic but I would like to address Nacs cruelty comment.
I could go on for hours about all the research being done to find the most humane traps but I won't. I'll just say here in WA we can only use cage traps for fur trapping.
Is that more cruel then many animal welfare groups doing the trap neuter return thing with cats? Perhaps it is because we kill fur bearers we catch? Our society kills a lot of animals intentionally everyday and that is OK to most. Perhaps it is because most furbearers are not harvested for food?
Is it worse to kill a goat and toss the hide and head then to kill a skunk in a trap and toss the carcass and sell the hide and head? Is it the act of killing or is it how the animal is killed? Before you say yes think about what a fish goes through to get to your dinner plate.
Is it maybe that some animals are just too cute. Rat, nobody cares about them but a fisher, a bobcat, a wolf now that is cruel.
Harvest, a lot of people have a problem with that in the connotation of hunting or trapping but that is what it is if you add in sustainability.
I try and put any animals down in the best way and really it is probably a better way to go then nature would provide.
I've trapped the same area since the winter of '68, '69. Yea there is that sustainability thing again.
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RumiDude Marmota olympus
Joined: 26 Jul 2009 Posts: 3590 | TRs | Pics Location: Port Angeles |
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RumiDude
Marmota olympus
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Sun Nov 20, 2016 1:18 pm
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Humptulips wrote: | Our society kills a lot of animals intentionally everyday and that is OK to most. Perhaps it is because most furbearers are not harvested for food? |
I see the thrust of your post but just wish to turn the tables on you a bit. Your last statement I quoted above about most furbearers not being harvested for food might be significant. I may return to it later. But first ...
Humptulips wrote: | I try and put any animals down in the best way and really it is probably a better way to go then nature would provide. |
First observation I would make is, have you asked the animal which it prefers? Well that is silly because we can't talk to animals, can we? Or can we? Does the animal try to get away? Does the animal resist dying? Maybe the answer will give you an indication of the animal's wishes on the matter.
Secondly I would ask why you bother to be "humane" when killing an animal? Would it make a difference to you if you tortured the animal to death? Does it matter if you intentionally made the animal's suffering greater? If you answered "yes" to either of these questions, then you have already admitted that the suffering of an animal is a concern you see as worthy of consideration. The only thing we now have to decide is to where to draw the line. Is the answer arbitrary? You seem to indicate it is not arbitrary because you make an effort as you wrote "I try and put any animals down in the best way".
Humptulips wrote: | Is it worse to kill a goat and toss the hide and head then to kill a skunk in a trap and toss the carcass and sell the hide and head? Is it the act of killing or is it how the animal is killed? Before you say yes think about what a fish goes through to get to your dinner plate. |
These are actually good questions, but there are other related questions you have not asked. Would it be OK to kill an animal simply for the joy of hunting, leaving the carcass to rot or be consumed by other animals? Would it be OK to kill an animal for ANY reason and in ANY manner an individual wished? If you answer "no" to either of those questions, then you have already admitted that there are circumstances which must be taken into consideration when taking the life of another living being.
There are no easy answers. Heck, there may not be a one-size-fits-all answer to any of this. I only use this opportunity to point out that the questions can be asked in the other direction from which you have asked yours.
Anyway, interesting discussion.
Rumi
"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
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Pyrites Member
Joined: 16 Sep 2014 Posts: 1884 | TRs | Pics Location: South Sound |
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Pyrites
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Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:59 pm
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Snowbrushy wrote: | Humptulips wrote: | Those fisher are coming from Canada and the north east/great lakes regions. |
I believe that the fisher reintroduction to the Olympics were greatly helped by a BC trappers association. I've wondered why? It can't be that they actually want to trap the fisher again here, like the HBC. Is it that they are like Trout Unlimited and actually do positive things?
A Trout Unlimited group doing positive things.
Fort Nisqually bastion and extra entrance |
Bad habit, but I assumed they paid the B.C. trappers who caught the fishers.
Are you seeing less mountain beavers on the coast? In what kind of setting?
Want to see mountain beaver (burrows), go to Purcell Mt near Randle. I usually expect to see them in a band on a given hill, I'd say the band on Purcell is >3,500 vertical feet wide.
I've still only seen the actual critter twice.
Best.
Keep Calm and Carry On?
Heck No.
Stay Excited and Get Outside!
Keep Calm and Carry On?
Heck No.
Stay Excited and Get Outside!
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Malachai Constant Member
Joined: 13 Jan 2002 Posts: 16092 | TRs | Pics Location: Back Again Like A Bad Penny |
I saw a mountain beaver in our front yard once a few years ago (5).
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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Kim Brown Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2009 Posts: 6899 | TRs | Pics
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They did get the fishers from BC. They did some kind of species studies and determined those from a particular area in Canada have the best traits to survive in Washington state. They had to be trapped at a specific timeframe to accommodate the best time to be released here, after poking, proding, tagging, etc.
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
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