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kawi_200 Member
Joined: 13 Nov 2014 Posts: 236 | TRs | Pics Location: Everett, WA |
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kawi_200
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Wed Feb 24, 2016 5:53 pm
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For a point of reference, my friend has a 960sqft 3 bed 2 bath house. He went through the local Everett/Snohomish PUD program and got a heat pump system installed for about $5,000. That is for the unit outside and two of the wall mount fan unit things inside. One in the living room and one in the master bedroom. His house was very nice to visit last summer.
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Randito Snarky Member
Joined: 27 Jul 2008 Posts: 9513 | TRs | Pics Location: Bellevue at the moment. |
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Randito
Snarky Member
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Wed Feb 24, 2016 6:05 pm
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If you really really hate all the duct work from Forced Air heating system -- you possibly could replace your furnace with a boiler and the duct work with hot water pipes -- and then place hot water radiators in each room.
A boiler would be $2K-$4K Each radiator $$250-$500 + the cost of all the plumbing + all the labor.
Maybe you should move -- it would be less work.
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Frosty Member
Joined: 30 Dec 2012 Posts: 173 | TRs | Pics Location: A bit north of the northwest... |
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Frosty
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Thu Feb 25, 2016 12:02 pm
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How much time are you spending down there to be bothered by ductwork? I zip down to retrieve wine or food from the cold room, grind some flour or get camping gear or tools. Not only is the hot water tank there, right next to it are the electric furnace, wood furnace, in the cold room sits the water softener, the iron filter and submersible pump. Two chest freezers are also down there!
Beauty in the basement? I am confused!
Frosty,
Lucky enough to live where it snows in the winter!
Frosty,
Lucky enough to live where it snows in the winter!
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wolffie Member
Joined: 14 Jul 2008 Posts: 2693 | TRs | Pics Location: Seattle |
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wolffie
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Thu Feb 25, 2016 12:26 pm
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Schroder wrote: | Are there cheap ones, or should I say ones more expensive than the rest? |
I called PSE because I'm also considering gas heat. They gave me some contractor referrals (all PSE does is run the pipe to a meter at your house if you don't have gas already). A gas unit would be many times smaller than the creature in my basement.
I'm leaning towards ductless heat pumps -- 2 output units, 1 in basement, 1 on main floor (800 sq. ft. each). 2 estimates so far ranging $8k-$10k (probly another $1.2+k to decommisson the oil tank).
QUIET is my #1 consideration. The cheap ones they have at the school's relocatable classrooms are awful; if you get one of those, your neighbors will hate you.
I'm told that some units are effective in this climate only down to about 40° F., below which you need a backup. The Mitsubishis and Daikens (perhaps others) are good down to freezing, allegedly.
Recently saw a very impressive high-end remodel which featured a Daiken. The guy who gave me a Daiken estimate said they have a better warranty than Mitsubishi (and are an older company in the heat-oump business). The $1.4million palace that just appeared in my neighborhood ($400k median price), 3x the footprint of the previous fine house that they tore down, has a Mitsubishi, maybe not the sole heat source.
My oil company gave me an estimate on a heat pump that would use my existing ducts. This has some appeal, since I don't see how the warm air is going to get into the cul-de-sac bedrooms and the long deep walk-in cedar closet that has had mildew problems (maybe 'cause I've seldom heated the house above 65-68° F.). If you do something like that, you'd still have the ugly ductlings, but you'd still have the ductlings, and the circulation.
If you do photovoltaic panels, that will decrease you costs further; their capital costs have come down considerably. Something to think about if you have a good roof exposure (I've seen solar panels on an east- or west-facing roof).
Heat pumps can be run backwards for summer cooling (not an issue for me 'cause I have an opening skylight).
Another option is to paint your ductwork in hot fluorescent clashing colors. Perhaps you could commission an artist on bad acid.
Anybody thinking about ductwork MUST see the film Brazil which has nothing to do with Brazil.
Some people have better things to do with their lives than walking the dog. Some don't.
Some people have better things to do with their lives than walking the dog. Some don't.
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Hulksmash Cleaning up.
Joined: 20 Apr 2008 Posts: 7113 | TRs | Pics Location: Arlington |
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Hulksmash
Cleaning up.
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Thu Feb 25, 2016 12:51 pm
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Schroder wrote: | What brand did you go with Brian? |
I went with a Daikin. The appear to have the best warranty. 12 years parts AND labor. Daikin is the largest heat pump manufacturer in the world.
It's unfortunate that virtually no manufacturer will warranty their equipment with a DIY installation.
Nancy Ann is correct do check the fine print. Not all models are designed to preform well in freezing temperatures. There are plenty of models to choose from the preform well down to temperatures 0 or below.
The one i had installed is rated for its full BTU capacity below 0. But one thing to remember is that they loose efficiency at those temperatures.
I have one 12000 BTU air handler in the main living area, and a 7000 BTU in the master bedroom. First night of use out side temps got down into the mid 20's. The heat pump was not even struggling to heat the house. I run up the inside temp from 68 to 80 and timed how long it took. Just 10 minutes. I have a poorly insulated very air leaky mid 70's 1400 square foot rambler.
"Bears couldn't care less about us....we smell bad and don't taste too good. Bugs on the other hand see us as vending machines." - WetDog
Albuterol! it's the 11th essential
"Bears couldn't care less about us....we smell bad and don't taste too good. Bugs on the other hand see us as vending machines." - WetDog
Albuterol! it's the 11th essential
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mike Member
Joined: 09 Jul 2004 Posts: 6398 | TRs | Pics Location: SJIsl |
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mike
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Thu Feb 25, 2016 1:12 pm
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Most new homes around here use a hot water boiler or ground source hp. LP gas
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mike Member
Joined: 09 Jul 2004 Posts: 6398 | TRs | Pics Location: SJIsl |
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mike
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Thu Feb 25, 2016 1:26 pm
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wolffie wrote: | and the long deep walk-in cedar closet that has had mildew problems |
Lack of circulation. Which is why I don't recommend removing the duct system if it's working. I cant imagine the math penciling out with this proposed "upgrade".
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GregoryBrown Member
Joined: 05 Oct 2016 Posts: 1 | TRs | Pics
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I think consulting a good plumbing professional will suggest you the best option for you according to your need and situation.
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wolffie Member
Joined: 14 Jul 2008 Posts: 2693 | TRs | Pics Location: Seattle |
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wolffie
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Wed Oct 05, 2016 1:13 pm
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I've hired my bro-in-law to remodel the basement. He recommends switching from forced-air oil heat to forced-air gas. I think the forced-air is important; I don't see how 2 or even 3 ductless heat pumps are going to get heat into all the little corners of the house, esp. the deep walk-in closet at the SE corner that has had mildew problems.
The gas co. wants 3 gas appliances if they're gonna run a line to your house. I have been told you can get away with lying about it, and doing only gas heat.
But my BIL suggests replacing my 1985 Maytag electric dryer (which will never die, but uses a lot of electricity) with a gas dryer, AND replacing my lifetime Rheem Marathon electric water heater* with one centrally-located on-demand gas water heater (the house is small, 1 unit can serve 2 bathrooms, kitchen, and the laundry).
Maybe also replacing my 1985 Maytag top-loader washing machine (which will never die and has had no maintenance except a belt replacement) with a front-loader.
My footprint is about 800 sq. ft., 1 floor with basement, so the ductwork is not extensive.
So if I do this, I'll be really Green and efficient. I will be ruining the planet more slowly than you are.
--------------------------
*if anybody wants to buy this Rheem Marathon electric water heater, it's a double plastic-shell with 4" foam is carries a lifetime warranty (probably voided by selling it to you). It's light and was easy to install. Our original water heater lasted 35 years. The 2nd lasted 10 years and 2 months (10 year warranty; they have it figured down to the month). I reckoned SOMEBODY knows how to make a water heater, and I found this one -- marketed through rural electric co-ops, I had to drive to North Bend to get it. About twice the cost of a disposable water heater, and much more efficient.
NOW THE FUN PART:
The most elaborate and intrusive ductwork was the cold-air return vent from the far corner of the NE bedroom, my daughter's, which always seemed cold. I always had to duck under this duct (is that why they call it "Duck tape"?). To enter the joist tunnel, it had a triple 90° bend, impressive sheet metal work.
Not a breath of air ever went down that tube.
I tried to vacuum it out once, and found it blocked mid-channel by a 2 x 9! The only joist tunnel so blocked in the house. Nobody had bothered to check.
I even measured it to see if was hiding a secret compartment containing the original owner's ill-gotten bank robbery hoard. No such luck.
Some people have better things to do with their lives than walking the dog. Some don't.
Some people have better things to do with their lives than walking the dog. Some don't.
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iron Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2008 Posts: 6392 | TRs | Pics Location: southeast kootenays |
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iron
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Wed Oct 05, 2016 1:33 pm
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^ a ductless heat pump will be able to heat that kind of area. shouldn't be a problem unless insulation sucks.
not all utilities will run gas to your house if you say you're going to use it. PSE wanted $15k to run it down our driveway. umm, no.
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LizzyRN Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2013 Posts: 204 | TRs | Pics Location: Mount Vernon |
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LizzyRN
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Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:41 pm
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We upgraded to natural gas from a 50 year old oil furnace, electric dryer, cooking and hot water heater. CNG brought it to our meter (no cost with a two appliance promise, we went with 4) and Handys Heating did the rest. 2,100 SF main floor and the same size basement. We wanted one fireplace to have gas, but they weren't keen on drilling through the brick. We cleaned out the ducts at the same time. They weren't bad but we found some cool old "treasures". We change the filters faithfully. Our gas bill fluctuates from $50-$125-ish.
Haven't regretted it yet.
LizzyRN
Where's my inhaler?!
LizzyRN
Where's my inhaler?!
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kawi_200 Member
Joined: 13 Nov 2014 Posts: 236 | TRs | Pics Location: Everett, WA |
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kawi_200
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Tue Oct 18, 2016 6:54 pm
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kawi_200 wrote: | For a point of reference, my friend has a 960sqft 3 bed 2 bath house. He went through the local Everett/Snohomish PUD program and got a heat pump system installed for about $5,000. That is for the unit outside and two of the wall mount fan unit things inside. One in the living room and one in the master bedroom. His house was very nice to visit last summer. |
I finished my refinance last summer and by the end of July I had ductless heat pumps installed from the same company my friend used. They only use Mitsubishi. It cost me $6700. My place is 1077 sqft, 2 bed, 2 bath. I have the original 1981 aluminum frame windows and I have horrid problems with heat conduction in the house. I also have an electric furnace from the early 90's and our winter bills have been almost $500. Summers, by the time I got home from work at midnight it was still 85* even after having windows and slider opened and fans going. Lately with the cooler weather outside it was 64* in the house in the morning when I woke up..... Terrible windows. But the heat pumps have worked wonders for controlling the house temp. I was able to maintain 68* in the summer even when it reached 90* and right now I can turn the units on and get the house up to 75* according to my electric furnace thermorstat.
I have a 12,000 BTU in the living room and it covers the dining, kitchen, and some of the hall also. I have a 9,000 BTU in the master and it can get the master to temp in 10min. The master bath skylight has the worst heat leak and the heat pump will even maintain that area too. I leave the bedroom door open and the heat moves down the hall to cover the rest of the space the 12k doesn't.
We are getting new low-E triple pain windows mid November so I will not get the heat loss/gain like I do now. My only issue will be the skylights, the company I am using for windows does not work on skylights. I have found low-E films and am going to try them on the skylights to see how that will help with maintaining heat.
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