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Sir-Hikes-A-Lot
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Joined: 27 Aug 2015
Posts: 59 | TRs | Pics
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| DIYSteve wrote: | | The science suggests that dogs do so through smelling pheromones. |
And bees; don't forget the bees....
It is by standing up for the rights of girls and women that we truly measure up as men. - Desmond Tutu
It is by standing up for the rights of girls and women that we truly measure up as men. - Desmond Tutu
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MyFootHurts
Huge Member
Joined: 22 Nov 2011
Posts: 912 | TRs | Pics
Location: Kekistan |
| DIYSteve wrote: | | MyFootHurts wrote: | | I just read all 8 pages. Several people said that about their dogs. |
No they didn't. People accurately said that dogs can sense threats or anxiety. The science suggests that dogs do so through smelling pheromones. Nobody said that dogs can judge human character. You made that up. |
You must work for CNN.
Here's one example in this thread of guy who literally hears his dog telling him in English which people are good or bad . I'm not going back through all 8 pages just to prove a point you will just deny anyway.
| hikersarenumber1 wrote: | | but if my dog doesn't like you, I'm going to take his word for it... |
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Gil
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Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Posts: 4062 | TRs | Pics
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Gil
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 Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:08 am |
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Loose dog. Bear spray. Problem solved.
Friends help the miles go easier.
Klahini
Friends help the miles go easier.
Klahini
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joker
seeker
Joined: 12 Aug 2006
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Location: state of confusion |
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joker
seeker
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Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:56 am |
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Fascinating thread, which says a lot more about humans than about dogs!
My bottom line in relation to the OP dogs - whether on or off leash - that can get close enough to people (or their dogs!!) who haven't invited their attention to be able to nip/bite them, aren't being handled well by their owners. But clearly far too many owners don't get this, and I fear this will lead to more places like the National Parks and the Enchantments where dogs become banned, with some good but unfortunate reason.
| RumiDude wrote: | | I managed to get bit only twice or so. I discovered most dogs don't like meter readers. So much for dogs fine tuned sense of dangerous humans. |
As someone who seems to often take some care with logic, you can likely get that there are different situations in which dogs will attend to what they see as threats. They are very territorial animals and will treat people or animals coming onto their territory (the home and yard, typically) quite differently than they might in situations where everything else is the same but the dog is not on its owner's property. FWIW, I've had a few dogs who have had pretty decent "radar" while out and about, with respect to creepy people. But yeah, there were some, as you noted separately, false positives. But the accuracy was good enough that I tended to pay attention to the signal from my dog, as sometimes they were tuned in to something that only became apparent to me after being alerted. On my property, OTOH, my goal was to ensure that the UPS guy (who seemed like a great guy) never had to meet my dog in person. The UPS guy clearly had the same goal. Friends who visit are another story - always happy visits. But people who drive up, drop things off on the doorstep, or come look at the meter (which at our place is readable w/o entering the fully fenced area) - not so much. The dogs have gotten to know these uninvited repeat visitors, even to the extent that one of our dogs would freak whenever a UPS truck drove by, wherever we were.
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hikersarenumber1
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Joined: 21 Apr 2015
Posts: 466 | TRs | Pics
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| Gil wrote: | | Loose dog. Bear spray. Problem solved. |
Assault if the spray hits human. Animal cruelty to dog.
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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 11276 | TRs | Pics
Location: Don't move here |
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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
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Fri Feb 24, 2017 2:18 pm |
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Our meter reader and UPS guy have the dogs running up happily and expecting treats. There is no barking at them and that kind of bothers me, but no barking happy dogs are better than barking scary biting beasties.
They make teeny little milk bones that are so tiny, one box lasts quite a while.
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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RumiDude
Marmota olympus
Joined: 26 Jul 2009
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Location: Port Angeles |
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RumiDude
Marmota olympus
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Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:21 pm |
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| joker wrote: | | RumiDude wrote: | | I managed to get bit only twice or so. I discovered most dogs don't like meter readers. So much for dogs fine tuned sense of dangerous humans. |
As someone who seems to often take some care with logic, you can likely get that there are different situations in which dogs will attend to what they see as threats. They are very territorial animals and will treat people or animals coming onto their territory (the home and yard, typically) quite differently than they might in situations where everything else is the same but the dog is not on its owner's property. FWIW, I've had a few dogs who have had pretty decent "radar" while out and about, with respect to creepy people. But yeah, there were some, as you noted separately, false positives. But the accuracy was good enough that I tended to pay attention to the signal from my dog, as sometimes they were tuned in to something that only became apparent to me after being alerted. On my property, OTOH, my goal was to ensure that the UPS guy (who seemed like a great guy) never had to meet my dog in person. The UPS guy clearly had the same goal. Friends who visit are another story - always happy visits. But people who drive up, drop things off on the doorstep, or come look at the meter (which at our place is readable w/o entering the fully fenced area) - not so much. The dogs have gotten to know these uninvited repeat visitors, even to the extent that one of our dogs would freak whenever a UPS truck drove by, wherever we were. |
Well my point is exactly that dogs cannot intuit good people and bad people. Instead they react to humans instinctually based on mostly visual and auditory social cues. In the case of meter readers, UPS, letter carriers, etc, it is more of a territorial thing, but still instinctual. And every breed and mix is different as are individual dogs. Even in the study cited early in the thread by RandyHiker, the dogs were reading our human social cues as their guide. Check out this article about "guilty looks" of dogs. I like this line from the article: "Lacking the scientific studies to explain how dogs experience emotion and memory, we instead turn to our own anthropomorphisms." It kinda relates to our discussions here about dogs.
If a dog doesn't like someone, it doesn't mean that person is a creep, bad, dishonest, malevolent, or anything of the sort. It simply means that for whatever reason, that person has triggered an instinctual reaction most likely based on social cues particular to that dog. As humans we also tend to remember those times when our dog's reaction to people matched our own reaction and we don't remember the times when they didn't, sorta a confirmation bias in our memories. (Here's a good book on the general topic of our perception, behavior, memory, and social judgment. Leonard Mlodinow: "Subliminal: How Your Unconscious Mind Rules Your Behavior )
Anyway, I have all sorts of interesting stories I could tell you about my female siberian huskey. She seem to like every human in the world except one, my best friend. She was the most human loving dog I have ever had or met, but she HATED my best friend for some reason.
Rumi
"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
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joker
seeker
Joined: 12 Aug 2006
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Location: state of confusion |
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joker
seeker
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Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:23 pm |
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They respond based on a mix of instinct and experience, just like us (in my one dog's case, I'm pretty sure the reaction to any UPS truck driving by was learned, not merely instinct). Research shows a surprising degree of attuned-ness to humans. Much more so than in wild canine counterparts. I hear you on confirmation bias and selective attention and all that, but at least with my first dog I kind of paid attention to all his reactions out of curiosity about what was going on, and I decided that his signals were a decent clue to me to pay attention to whatever the heck it was that he was reacting to. Sometimes it may have just been a wide brimmed had or a particularly large backpack, but often enough it was more about something "off" about the person. Whether due to instinct or something learned or some canine conceptualization the dog had about "good" and "bad" people, it was a useful signal for me. It could have been just a reaction to my reaction, though if so he was able to see it even when I had no clue I had a feeling about the person (may not have even really looked at them yet), which seems less probable to me than that he was reacting to something about that person.
We had another dog who seemed impartial to different strangers (tail wags for everyone who paid attention, but she loved the people she knew) and one who mostly only got grumpy if someone came by while he was napping on a break during outdoor outings.
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Bedivere
Why Do Witches Burn?
Joined: 25 Jul 2008
Posts: 7464 | TRs | Pics
Location: The Hermitage |
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Bedivere
Why Do Witches Burn?
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Sun Feb 26, 2017 7:32 pm |
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Kinda surprised it took 7 pages for the real cranks to start chiming in... 
 DSC_0572
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JonnyQuest
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Joined: 10 Dec 2013
Posts: 593 | TRs | Pics
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| Bootpathguy wrote: | | Such a hypocrite!Earlier in the thread you say... ( Page #4 )"when I hike with my dog i am so afraid someone will stab or shoot him"This is what we call a written "confession"Yet you continue to take your dog into dangerous conditions.And this! is what we call animal cruelty!If your dog is stabbed or shot on the trail very well knowing that it was inevitable, you will be prosecuted under the "Pisado Law"Some people |
Wow, that seems a stretch. I hope we aren't expected to extend this logic to human interaction, or gender based harassment. If I have any underlying fear of encountering unsavory characters while hiking, and then get assaulted by such a character while hiking, am I to blame for going on the hike?
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Bedivere
Why Do Witches Burn?
Joined: 25 Jul 2008
Posts: 7464 | TRs | Pics
Location: The Hermitage |
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Bedivere
Why Do Witches Burn?
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Mon Feb 27, 2017 9:45 pm |
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Jeezus dood...
fearing /= knowing.
Every day I drive to work I fear I may get in a car wreck. Am I stupid for driving to work?
Every time I hike solo I fear I might have a heart attack and die alone in the wilderness. Should I never hike solo?
Sometimes facing your fears is cathartic and healthy.
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Bugs
Member
Joined: 02 May 2016
Posts: 140 | TRs | Pics
Location: Redmond |
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Bugs
Member
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Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:16 am |
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I am afraid of where this thread might go from here.
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Bedivere
Why Do Witches Burn?
Joined: 25 Jul 2008
Posts: 7464 | TRs | Pics
Location: The Hermitage |
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Bedivere
Why Do Witches Burn?
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Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:11 pm |
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| Bugs wrote: | | I am afraid of where this thread might go from here. |
Heh. I see what you did there.
The first six pages were a fairly rational discussion of issues. Kind of amazing for one of these threads, really.
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Hikerdood
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Joined: 09 May 2016
Posts: 108 | TRs | Pics
Location: Bothell, Wa. |
| hikersarenumber1 wrote: | | Assault if the spray hits human. Animal cruelty to dog. |
BULLSH!T! You have the right to protect yourself.
I have been bitten once, rushed multiple times, used pepper spray against two dogs within 20 seconds. (Sprayed one dog in the face, then the other dog. First dog came back for more and sprayed him again). I'd like to see them try and sue me for protecting myself.
But my best and safest weapon is the "Dog buzzer". Its basically a portable smoke alarm siren.
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Backpacker Joe
Blind Hiker
Joined: 16 Dec 2001
Posts: 23956 | TRs | Pics
Location: Cle Elum |
Growing up my friend had a dog. After the second bite on a child they had to put it down! I dont see why that's an unreasonable request if your dog is biting people!
"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."
— Abraham Lincoln
"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."
— Abraham Lincoln
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