Forum Index > Public Lands Stewardship > Help With Invasive Plant Removal and Stream Renovation
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Dalekz
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PostThu Feb 23, 2017 10:55 am 
Here is a pretty good King County Invasive Knotweeds pamphlet. It gets into control and kill methods (Manual, Mechanical or Chemical Controls) at the end http://your.kingcounty.gov/dnrp/library/water-and-land/weeds/BMPs/Knotweed-Control.pdf

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Humptulips
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PostFri Feb 24, 2017 12:29 am 
Sculpin wrote:
Some dubious information is starting to accumulate here. It does not take multiple years to kill Japanese Knotweed with glyphosate. You do not need to inject the stems or coat the stumps. If you are part of a crew that is removing invasives, you cannot wait for ideal spraying conditions. It is difficult to schedule cutting the weed one week and spraying the sprouts two weeks later, you will end up having to spray on cloudy days and later in the day, etc. All these factors will reduce effectiveness and the weeds may persevere. This is Klapton's residence. He can wait for the right conditions. If he follows the directions I gave EXACTLY, the knotweed will be really most sincerely dead after two or three sprayings. I have heard folks say their eradication effort did not work because Round-up did not affect the weed. Round-up is deadly toxic to anything that photosynthesizes if you can get the plant to metabolize the poison. Some plants have waxy leaves and grow in the full shade. It is difficult to get these plants to metabolize the poison. Japanese Knotweed is not that hard to kill. In the late morning on a sunny day, the stomata on the leaves are open and absorbing the dew, and they will absorb the glyphosate very efficiently. And a disclaimer: I am not the Round-up Man. I hate the stuff. But there are some weeds that cannot be controlled without it. I used it on English pea in my rockgarden, and morning glory on a fence line.
This is pretty much all bad advice. Do not cut and then spray. You will only end up spreading it with the cuttings getting away from you. You cannot kill it completely in one year. You can knock it back pretty severely the first year but their will be sickly plants next year considerably reducing your spraying. Third year there will be very few survivor's but there will be an occasional one that you have to hit if you want it gone for good.

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Klapton
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PostFri Feb 24, 2017 11:07 am 
Perhaps I will remember to report back here with my results. Thanks again to everyone for pitching in .

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treeswarper
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PostFri Feb 24, 2017 2:40 pm 
If or should I say when the native alder seeds in, you might want to let it grow. If that area has been abused, the alder will help heal up the soils, it is a nitrogen fixer and the soil will be ready to support some evergreens. You will have firewood.

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human末animals and aliens are great possibilities
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Sculpin
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PostSat Feb 25, 2017 9:05 am 
Humptulips wrote:
You will only end up spreading it with the cuttings getting away from you.
I can't make the slightest sense out of that, time for me to back away from this one. Japanese knotweed can exceed six feet tall. Yes, you can effectively spray the mature plants, but you will create a cloud of mist that will drift into the creek and on to the surrounding native vegetation.

Between every two pines is a doorway to the new world. - John Muir
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Humptulips
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PostSat Feb 25, 2017 8:46 pm 
Every piece you cut and especially the roots has the potential to sprout. It is near a stream so any disturbance has the potential to put stuff in the water or get inadvertently moved by humans to a new site. How do you think the stuff was spread all over? That brings up another point. If you dig it or cut it where are you going to get rid of plants? They will all grow if you don't make darn sure you have killed them and I bet you will think it is OK but still leave some alive to sprout. I've seen them spray this stuff and there is not a cloud of spray. Across the road from my house they worked right around some apple trees and did not get any on the trees. Seemed like a pretty surgical operation. They used backpack sprayers with a pretty narrow coverage area. I was impressed. I originally thought like you they would kill everything but it seemed they could work around other vegetation. The patches of knotweed kill pretty much everything by crowding it out from the sun so there wasn't a lot of small plants except around the edges.

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Klapton
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PostSat Feb 25, 2017 9:04 pm 
Humptulips wrote:
Every piece you cut and especially the roots has the potential to sprout. It is near a stream so any disturbance has the potential to put stuff in the water or get inadvertently moved by humans to a new site. How do you think the stuff was spread all over? That brings up another point. If you dig it or cut it where are you going to get rid of plants? They will all grow if you don't make darn sure you have killed them and I bet you will think it is OK but still leave some alive to sprout. I've seen them spray this stuff and there is not a cloud of spray. Across the road from my house they worked right around some apple trees and did not get any on the trees. Seemed like a pretty surgical operation. They used backpack sprayers with a pretty narrow coverage area. I was impressed. I originally thought like you they would kill everything but it seemed they could work around other vegetation. The patches of knotweed kill pretty much everything by crowding it out from the sun so there wasn't a lot of small plants except around the edges.
Just to make this clear: I had already researched how to kill this stuff, and already had a plan. That plan includes removing ALL the stuff I cut FAR from the stream to be burned. My main question was asking for recommendations on what to plant in its place. The part I boldfaced gives me the impression that you think I'm stupid and somehow don't know the different ways plants propagate. In my very first post I discussed that these plants spread by rhizomes. That might have given you a hint that I know something about plants. EDIT to add: I see now that you were responding to someone not understanding your earlier post. I too found it a little confusing. Everyone reading the thread knows how the plant spreads and that getting anything in the creek during this operation is bad. I won't be digging anything, except maybe native plants (salmonberries) from 20 feet away to transplant into the dead space afterward.

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Malachai Constant
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PostSat Feb 25, 2017 10:15 pm 
Crickey, and I thought English Ivy was bad that is truly the Devils Weed. Good Luck.

"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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Humptulips
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PostSun Feb 26, 2017 11:23 am 
Klapton, What is the point in cutting the stuff? Why not just kill it where it is and leave the stuff? Not sure how big your patch is but where it was sprayed here the native stuff like salmonberry came back in from the edges fairly fast.

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Klapton
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PostSun Feb 26, 2017 12:50 pm 
Humptulips wrote:
Klapton, What is the point in cutting the stuff? Why not just kill it where it is and leave the stuff? Not sure how big your patch is but where it was sprayed here the native stuff like salmonberry came back in from the edges fairly fast.
I'm going to cut it first, and spray the new sprouts as the other poster suggested. When the cut material has dried, I will burn it so there will be zero chance of it infecting anything else. After it is dead, I will probably divide some of the existing salmonberries for transplant. I might plant some other things too. That was the purpose of the thread, to get suggestions on what to plant in its place.

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treeswarper
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PostTue Apr 18, 2017 6:17 am 
Update? This wet weather is excellent for planting or replanting vegetation. Hope you got some done. If you plant any coniferous trees, one species that you might consider is Willamette Valley Pine. It is actually a Ponderosa Pine that was once found in that valley and in our state but adapted to the wetter climate. It became rare because it grew where the ground was good for farming, so it was cut and disposed of. I planted a few here, and they thrived through the drought year. That was their first year here. I imagine it might be a "native" tree for your area? I found seedlings at the Weyco tree sale, but there are probably other sources. There are some mature examples by the fairgrounds in the Dallas, OR area.

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human末animals and aliens are great possibilities
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treeswarper
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PostTue Apr 18, 2017 9:59 am 
If there were thimbleberries, they will grow on their own. I have too many growing in places I don't want them to grow in. They get whacked! Then come back again and again.

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human末animals and aliens are great possibilities
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Randito
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PostTue Apr 18, 2017 10:00 am 
Klapton -- if your farm does indeed have a "hippie" vib -- you might be able to score some volunteer labor through this organization -- of course -- you might need to eschew the use of Monsanto and other "big chem" makers products -- but I kind of feel that's sort of how you roll anyway. https://wwoofusa.org/host-membership/

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Klapton
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PostTue Apr 18, 2017 11:42 pm 
I appreciate the info, but this really is a small project. Monsanto is a very naughty corporation, but they do make excellent poisons. I use cheapo brand glyphosphate to avoid giving them my money. I also don't use it anywhere near anything that I will eat. EDIT to add: Now I clicked on the link. Interesting folks. Thank you. We have a LOT of work to do before we will be producing enough to be considered an actual farm. I hope to eventually make some money from it, but mostly it's for my family to eat.

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Ski
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PostWed Apr 19, 2017 1:03 pm 
^ The patent on glysophate expired. You don't have to buy it from Montsano. Any chemical manufacturer can cook the stuff up. Last bottle I got was about $45.00 for a 32-ounce bottle of concentrate from Agri-Shop down on 12th & Sprague - was enough for an entire season at three different residential sites. Just find a cheap generic concentrate. I hate using the stuff, but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do - just keep it out of the water and away from storm drain grates.

"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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