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Stefan
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PostMon Mar 06, 2017 10:12 am 
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I like sharing roads with many types of users.  Roads are boring....and I am thankful for the snowmobilers flattening out the road for my snowshoe/skiing--makes for speedier travel.

Its a road and we all need to share the roads.

Off road travelling...well that's a different matter.

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Schenk
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PostMon Mar 06, 2017 11:28 am 
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treeswarper wrote:
Sounds the same as what little kids on short skis do. smile.gif

Nobody has mentioned what apparently actually impacts nature--the tracks allow predators to travel and gain access to catch and eat prey a bit easier--  Like snowshoe hares. 

Treeswarper.....It must be pointed out that sleds destroy more than just skiing conditions. And those packed trails are no great boon to wildlife.

1) Sleds break off the tops of small trees all over any place they go. In fact (you should be real happy with this one) most Timber Companies forbid sledding off their established roads, or forbid it altogether, because of the damage they do to all the young trees in replanted  areas.
2) Sledders can also knock down and trash road and campground signs.
3) They have also caved in roofs of small buildings  by using them as "jumps"
4) Sledders chase and harass wildlife that uses the packed trails as a thoroughfare in the winter. Moose get the worst of this. Animals may use the packed trails, but they don't need them, and using them is no sign that sledders are some wonderful benefit to wildlife.

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treeswarper
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PostMon Mar 06, 2017 12:07 pm 
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Schenk, read my post a bit more carefully.

Every sport has jerks.  Plus, the timber companies around me keep their gates locked year round so that is a moot point, for me.

The BIG problem is once again, population growth.

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Bronco
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PostMon Mar 06, 2017 12:35 pm 
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Some friends and I also skinned up Smithbrook road Saturday and encountered the snowmobiles parked on the shoulders of the road.  It appeared to be a group of snowboarders who were filming each other dropping down a pretty sweet looking pillow line next to the road.  It looked like they were having a great time.

Also encountered a large group of boy scouts who were out to conduct an overnight snow cave bivy.  They were tracking up the area pretty aggressively and having a great time as well.

Too bad the OP didn't continue on, the snow in the steeper trees was pretty deep and light (hero snow). We also had a great time.
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NacMacFeegle
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PostMon Mar 06, 2017 12:56 pm 
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treeswarper wrote:
Every sport has jerks.

......but if those jerks are riding around on big motorized vehicles they have a much greater ability to annoy, endanger, and cause damage.

treeswarper wrote:
The BIG problem is once again, population growth.

All the more reason to cut back on high impact per capita activities.

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RandyHiker
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PostMon Mar 06, 2017 1:13 pm 
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treeswarper wrote:
The BIG problem is once again, population growth.

Yep -- but I wouldn't trade the PNW problems with population growth from growth in tech employment for the problems of the Detroit area with collapse of employment and declining population.
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n16ht5
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PostMon Mar 06, 2017 2:32 pm 
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How dare you people drive cars on the road while I am riding my bicycle on the shoulder!  rant.gif

Get over yourselves.   rolleyes.gif

If you are concerned about running into vehicle traffic on a road and your destination is smithbrook you should consider the low hanging fruit that you are going for.. I have been up smithbrook a few times on my sled to go skiing, and I have offered rides to skiers I ran into. I'll know to look out for you next time to give you a tissue when I ride by.

Get a sled or a snowbike and get yourself out there away from everything. Ride to the wilderness boundary and start skinning.. that is how I do it.  moon.gif I would bet money I will never see another person out here all winter... haters   biggrin.gif
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John Morrow
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PostMon Mar 06, 2017 3:09 pm 
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n16ht5 wrote:
Get a sled or a snowbike and get yourself out there away from everything. Ride to the wilderness boundary and start skinning.. that is how I do it.  moon.gif I would bet money I will never see another person out here all winter... haters  biggrin.gif


Come on, that language isn't necessary.  It is not too much to ask for a few close in places to be dedicated to quietude, especially when the north side of Rainy Pass is easily accessible to the snowmobile via Lake Wenatchee snowpark.
There's some bad eggs with attitude snowmobiling from Smithbrook.  To your wilderness point, I've worked real hard to summit Jove in order to ski the  Jove North Bowl inside the Henry M Jackson Wilderness only to observe illegal high marking in process all across that slope, trashing it.  They exit back to Smithbrook.

I can't afford a $30,000 truck, $10,000 trailer, and pair of $15,000 snowmobiles.  (these are guesses, but way more than my $900 tele outfit)

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Schenk
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PostMon Mar 06, 2017 3:11 pm 
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treeswarper wrote:
The BIG problem is once again, population growth.

I will not dispute that, for sure! I agree...toooooo many people in Earth.
But that doesn't counter any points I made about sleds and the destruction they can do.

My post was in response to your question and comment: "Please tell us what they destroy?  They ride on top of snow" I listed 4 things and there are more.
So, timber companies lock their gates where you live? What bearing does that have on the issue of sled destruction? If anything, it serves to reinforce the fact that timber companies don't want sledders ripping up small trees on their property.
Besides, it doesn't have to be a logged area for destruction to occur. That was just an example that nobody could deny .
I have seen evidence of sled damage everywhere sleds go.
The whole reason for buying one of those big sleds is to rip up a slope and terrify or destroy anything that gets in the way (trees, deer, moose, picnic tables, out buildings, etc, etc.)
My observation is that, yes, every sport has jerks but some sports have been embraced and taken over by those jerks. Mostly it is the motor sports category that harbors these D-bags.

And about those great "wildlife corridors" sleds create...Baloney. 100% baloney.
Just because we see some game tracks on a packed trail, that does not automatically mean that packed snowmobile trails are a benefit to wildlife. Moose have it worse than other wildlife too. Once a moose gets caught on a packed trail it will run down the trail for miles while idiot sledders try to "chase it off the trail"
All that does is deplete the moose's slim reserves and makes it harder for it to survive the winter.
Here is one: Bears can be found raiding garbage dumps because it is convenient for them...doesn't mean garbage dumps are ultimately a benefit to the bears.

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AlpineRose
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PostMon Mar 06, 2017 3:48 pm 
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Quote:
plenty of non-motorized areas available

Now that is an exaggeration.  It is more accurate to say "a few".  -1, now that  ventilator tunnel parking is being restricted.  Talk about historical use.  The Arrowhead/Jim Hill area has been a popular bc ski destination since before there was dirt.

Quote:
I just wish they would realize how detrimental their recreation choice is to virtually everyone else out there

Oh, they know.

Multiple use is a concept that sounds fine in theory.  In practice, not so much.  As some OPs have mentioned, the key here is to lobby and negotiate for more machine free zones and improved parking access for other areas.  Which is more tedious and less fun than complaining on an online forum. The Smithbrook area would be a fine candidate for the former.  The Jim Hill ventilator area a fine candidate for the latter.  I'm not so fond of the voluntary non-motorized areas.  There will always be the bros who say "we ain't volunteerin'".
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HitTheTrail
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PostMon Mar 06, 2017 3:54 pm 
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I don't have much of an opinion one way or the other on the snowmobile thing. But, if you drive up the Chiwawa road near the end of the pavement you will see a big ugly area in the middle of the road where the blacktop has been melted and distroyed by a bonfire. Hmmm...wonder who did that.
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Schroder
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PostMon Mar 06, 2017 4:52 pm 
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n16ht5 wrote:
Ride to the wilderness boundary and start skinning.. that is how I do it.  moon.gif I would bet money I will never see another person out here all winter... haters  biggrin.gif

Ever go up Excelsior Ridge in the winter?  I see snowmobiles miles into the Wilderness Area every time I go there. Same on Mt Baker.
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NacMacFeegle
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PostMon Mar 06, 2017 5:03 pm 
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Schroder wrote:
n16ht5 wrote:
Ride to the wilderness boundary and start skinning.. that is how I do it.  moon.gif I would bet money I will never see another person out here all winter... haters  biggrin.gif

Ever go up Excelsior Ridge in the winter?  I see snowmobiles miles into the Wilderness Area every time I go there. Same on Mt Baker.

I've heard that the Mt. Adams Wilderness has the same problem.

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RandyHiker
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PostMon Mar 06, 2017 5:21 pm 
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BTW the "SledNecks" have their own site and discussion forums -- a very active topic is

"Land Use Issues that affect riding areas."

https://www.snowest.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=83

There is a lot of concern and activism about more and more (their words) areas being closed to motorized usage.   There also appear to be endless and circular threads (similar to off-leash dog threads here)  Between the "I'll ride anywhere I want" and the "Follow the rules or there will be more areas lost to legal riding" camps.
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Just_Some_Hiker
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PostMon Mar 06, 2017 5:51 pm 
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RandyHiker wrote:
Just_Some_Hiker wrote:


RandyHiker wrote:
Snowmobiles have been using Smithbrook for decades

That fact was not in dispute.

Right, but it seems you are relatively new in this area and are pontificating on a multi-use issue as if was something new and you have some novel insight.

I've been going to Smithbrook in the wintertime for years. I don't think my insight on the matter is especially novel, other than the fact that I've experienced the recklessness of slednecks first hand.

Jeff wrote:
More like a dirt bike driving by a runner running on the road.

That's not an accurate analogy at all since, regardless of direction, they drive wherever they please. Right, left, in the middle, zig-zagging. They don't care. I've been on the right side of the road, in an obvious snowshoe trench, looking at a snow-bike rocketing directly towards me without a care in the world. They. Don't. Care. Slednecks don't observe the same backcountry ethnics that hikers do.

Jeff wrote:
I like skinning up smithbrook, but I know sleds are a part of it. Lots of other options on 2 if you want to get away from them

Yeah, and I've been to those places. But sometimes I want to go up to Lichtenberg, Jove, or Valhalla without getting ran over.

Bronco wrote:
Too bad the OP didn't continue on, the snow in the steeper trees was pretty deep and light (hero snow). We also had a great time.

We went up to Skyline and had a great time doing laps. The snow was awesome.
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