Forum Index > Full Moon Saloon > What happened to Amelia Earhart - evidential trail Marshall Islands
Previous :: Next Topic  
Author Message
gb
Member
Member


Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 4252 | TRs

gb
Member
PostSun Jul 16, 2017 8:48 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
The word anecdotal gets thrown around a little too much. All of history is anecdotal before cameras and recording devices.

I really have no investment in how this story turns out but my strong inclination is that the stories told by the Marshall Islanders are probably for the most part accurate. I just find this very interesting and will be open minded when I read the book which I will probably order in the near future.

My suspicion is that the photo was Earhart and Noonan as well and that the Japanese covered up what for them would have been a big embarrassment and probably fudged the date of publishing of the book which was possible because it is probably a book that almost no one would read.....

I'll come back to this thread with key information from the book - and I will be open minded.
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
Seventy2002
Member
Member


Joined: 19 Jul 2008
Posts: 342 | TRs

Seventy2002
Member
PostSun Jul 16, 2017 9:16 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Ski wrote:
by 1937 the Japanese were a little pissed off at Roosevelt for freezing assets and cutting off shipments of oil,

That was in 1940 and 1941 after Japan invaded French Indochina.

US-Japan relations were certainly strained in 1937 but Japan still felt it had to formally apologize for the attack on the USS Panay in December of that year and pay reparations.
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
Ski
><((((>



Joined: 28 May 2005
Posts: 8030 | TRs
Location: tacoma
Ski
><((((>
PostSun Jul 16, 2017 9:31 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
up.gif thanks for the correction.... trying to pull numbers out of my head doesn't always work. dizzy.gif

--------------
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. 
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
Ski
><((((>



Joined: 28 May 2005
Posts: 8030 | TRs
Location: tacoma
Ski
><((((>
PostSun Jul 16, 2017 9:39 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
gb wrote:
The word anecdotal gets thrown around a little too much. All of history is anecdotal before cameras and recording devices.

There were written histories as far back as there were civilizations. We have documents from Uruk-of-the-walls in Mesopotamia. (Doesn't mean, of course, that they were all 100% accurate, as has been argued about the claims made in the hieroglyphs commemorating Rameses II's "great conquests".)

The problem with "oral histories" is that they get twisted around over time, and it doesn't always take a really long time for that to happen. Some of them get really really twisted before they get written down (i.e., "Viking Sagas" from Iceland.) So in spite of the term being "thrown around too much", it's still what it is - anecdotal. Some can be trusted to be closer to the truth than some other.

I guess I tend to take it all more with a grain of salt than perhaps you do.

"History is written by the victors." - attributed to Winston Churchill

--------------
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. 
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
gb
Member
Member


Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 4252 | TRs

gb
Member
PostMon Jul 17, 2017 4:39 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Ski wrote:
gb wrote:
The word anecdotal gets thrown around a little too much. All of history is anecdotal before cameras and recording devices.

There were written histories as far back as there were civilizations. We have documents from Uruk-of-the-walls in Mesopotamia. (Doesn't mean, of course, that they were all 100% accurate, as has been argued about the claims made in the hieroglyphs commemorating Rameses II's "great conquests".)

The problem with "oral histories" is that they get twisted around over time, and it doesn't always take a really long time for that to happen. Some of them get really really twisted before they get written down (i.e., "Viking Sagas" from Iceland.) So in spite of the term being "thrown around too much", it's still what it is - anecdotal. Some can be trusted to be closer to the truth than some other.

I guess I tend to take it all more with a grain of salt than perhaps you do.

"History is written by the victors." - attributed to Winston Churchill

The Bible is written documentation. I would wager the story of the destruction of Awatovi as told to Harold Courlander in Hopi oral tradition is as accurate as the Bible. Joseph Campbell would probably have something to say about that. Oral traditions or stories change likely at a rate of change dependent on the number of people who made the original observations and on the number of  "generations" that have passed on the oral tradition. There have only been two generations of individuals at most who have passed since the events in 1937- the remainder still survive.

There is probably also flexion in the stories passed on depending on whether or not the stories  have moral significance - clearly the Earhart story would not have that burden in the Marshall Islands.

The Lockheed Electra was artifactual evidence. It will be interesting to see how and if the Marshall Islanders recorded their observations.
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
Ski
><((((>



Joined: 28 May 2005
Posts: 8030 | TRs
Location: tacoma
Ski
><((((>
PostMon Jul 17, 2017 9:35 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
I would wager the "Popol Vuh" is as accurate as the Bible, but that's just me being biased.

Only thing I know about Joseph Campbell is that he did a PBS special years ago with Bill Moyers called "The Power of Myth". It was almost 30 years ago, and I barely remember any details, but when I typed his name into "Google" and saw his photograph it clicked, and I remember thinking that the man was absolutely brilliant and spot on.

You raise very valid points there. You mentioned a book above that I would be interested in hearing more about when you get through it.
The "two generations" vs. "umpty-eleven generations" thing is definitely a game-changer - I don't think anyone could argue that. Again, "Icelandic Sagas" (that I mistakenly above called "Viking Sagas") are probably the best example I could think of; passed down over who-knows-how-many generations, they're rife with fairly obvious fairy-tale stuff interwoven with real-life events.

But you're getting above my pay grade here, gb. I don't have a PhD (or anything even close) in history or philosophy - I'm just a layman who spent lots of hours at public libraries and checked out a lot of really crazy stuff. I only know what I know, and I can only remember half of it most of the time.

Let us know what you find in that book. up.gif

--------------
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. 
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
gb
Member
Member


Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 4252 | TRs

gb
Member
PostTue Jul 18, 2017 3:13 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Your arguments, Ski, seem well constructed. It has been a pleasure to engage with you on this story.

I'll probably read the book in August or September. When I'm done, I'll pass it on if you would like.

Gary
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
Backpacker Joe
NWH Joe-Bob



Joined: 16 Dec 2001
Posts: 22728 | TRs
Location: Cle Elum
Backpacker Joe
NWH Joe-Bob
PostWed Jul 19, 2017 7:55 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Malaysia Airlines Flight 370

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_370

The new Amelia Earhart!

--------------
"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."

Abraham Lincoln
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
trestle
Member
Member


Joined: 17 Aug 2008
Posts: 1863 | TRs
Location: the Oly Pen
trestle
Member
PostWed Jul 19, 2017 4:09 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
^ Was that post really necessary? How does it improve this forum? Regardless of whether this is the Saloon or not, please show a little consideration for the departed.

--------------
"Life favors the prepared." - Edna Mode
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
Backpacker Joe
NWH Joe-Bob



Joined: 16 Dec 2001
Posts: 22728 | TRs
Location: Cle Elum
Backpacker Joe
NWH Joe-Bob
PostWed Jul 19, 2017 8:40 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
trestle wrote:
^ Was that post really necessary? How does it improve this forum? Regardless of whether this is the Saloon or not, please show a little consideration for the departed.

It wasnt a joke, or in anyway disrespectful!  I truly believe this will be another unexplained example of a lost aircraft that no one will ever know what happened to.

--------------
"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."

Abraham Lincoln
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
Ski
><((((>



Joined: 28 May 2005
Posts: 8030 | TRs
Location: tacoma
Ski
><((((>
PostWed Jul 19, 2017 8:56 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
^ could very well be, and I doubt if there are any shortage of conspiracy theories about it.

--------------
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. 
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
AR
724



Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 1493 | TRs
Location: Saratoga Passage
AR
724
PostThu Jul 20, 2017 8:01 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
"... and yes, AR, with all this foofaraw, we could probably re-invent the wheel.... but at least it's not a conversation about Elvis sightings!"

Don't get me started on Elvis, and I'll throw in Mr. Cooper.

I'll try not dive too deep into this one...

Cooper may have been working for Boeing.  The tie Mr. Cooper left behind (when he jumped out of the back of a jet plane) had a lot of unusual metals embedded in it for it's day (titanium, other alloys).

At the same time Elvis wanted a plane that stood out.  So Mr. Cooper and Elvis crossed paths on any given casual Sunday...

Elvis needed the expertise to build a superior plane.  Mr. Cooper spent years constructing superior planes.

Mr. Cooper had a little extra cash if needed, in case things fell through.

The end result was the Convair 880.

--------------
...wait...are we just going to hang here or go hiking?
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
gb
Member
Member


Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 4252 | TRs

gb
Member
PostFri Jul 21, 2017 6:47 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
AR wrote:
"... and yes, AR, with all this foofaraw, we could probably re-invent the wheel.... but at least it's not a conversation about Elvis sightings!"

Don't get me started on Elvis, and I'll throw in Mr. Cooper.

I'll try not dive too deep into this one...

Cooper may have been working for Boeing.  The tie Mr. Cooper left behind (when he jumped out of the back of a jet plane) had a lot of unusual metals embedded in it for it's day (titanium, other alloys).

At the same time Elvis wanted a plane that stood out.  So Mr. Cooper and Elvis crossed paths on any given casual Sunday...

Elvis needed the expertise to build a superior plane.  Mr. Cooper spent years constructing superior planes.

Mr. Cooper had a little extra cash if needed, in case things fell through.

The end result was the Convair 880.

Once again, you are off in La-La land.
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
trestle
Member
Member


Joined: 17 Aug 2008
Posts: 1863 | TRs
Location: the Oly Pen
trestle
Member
PostFri Jul 21, 2017 9:06 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Backpacker Joe wrote:
trestle wrote:
^ Was that post really necessary? How does it improve this forum? Regardless of whether this is the Saloon or not, please show a little consideration for the departed.

It wasnt a joke, or in anyway disrespectful!  I truly believe this will be another unexplained example of a lost aircraft that no one will ever know what happened to.

Thanks for the clarification.

--------------
"Life favors the prepared." - Edna Mode
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
Ski
><((((>



Joined: 28 May 2005
Posts: 8030 | TRs
Location: tacoma
Ski
><((((>
PostSun Jul 23, 2017 4:04 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Wednesday, July 19, 2017 Variety

History Investigates Amelia Earhart Doc Claims, Suspends Repeats

--------------
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. 
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
  Display:     All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Forum Index > Full Moon Saloon > What happened to Amelia Earhart - evidential trail Marshall Islands
  Happy Birthday ahumblefool, Lightning_bug, cpc!
Jump to:   
Search this topic:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
   Use Disclaimer Powered by phpBB Privacy Policy