Previous :: Next Topic |
Author |
Message |
SingleShot Member
Joined: 20 Sep 2010 Posts: 119 | TRs | Pics
|
The Atlantic salmon is one of the world's finest sport fish. That's why the Game Department tried, several times, to create naturally spawning populations in local rivers. Had they been successful all this nightmare talk would be moot.
WDFW Volunteer Award recipient
WDFW Volunteer Award recipient
|
Back to top |
|
|
Randito Snarky Member
Joined: 27 Jul 2008 Posts: 9512 | TRs | Pics Location: Bellevue at the moment. |
|
Randito
Snarky Member
|
Sat Sep 02, 2017 12:10 pm
|
|
|
WDFW info page about Atlantic Salmon
http://wdfw.wa.gov/ais/salmo_salar/
As recently as 1981 introduction was tried and was a complete failure. Fish Farms in BC have had roughly 50,000 fish escape per year for many years. It would be a bit surprising if this release was the one that suddenly results in a self-sustaining wild population.
Also of note: Farmed Salmon in Waashingtiin generate some 40 million in revenue...
I think I'll give some Costco Atlantic Salmon a try in my smoker when I get back to the PNW.
|
Back to top |
|
|
Ski ><((((°>
Joined: 28 May 2005 Posts: 12829 | TRs | Pics Location: tacoma |
|
Ski
><((((°>
|
Sat Sep 02, 2017 1:35 pm
|
|
|
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
|
Back to top |
|
|
Ski ><((((°>
Joined: 28 May 2005 Posts: 12829 | TRs | Pics Location: tacoma |
|
Ski
><((((°>
|
Sat Sep 02, 2017 1:44 pm
|
|
|
WDFW, on the web page Randy cited just above wrote: | Review of exiting biological data suggests that escaped Atlantic salmon do not pose significant risk to native fish populations, however, the biological impacts from the recent (1996, 1997, 1999) escapes in Washington are still being evaluated. |
Seriously? Twenty-one years later they're "still evaluating", but claim there is "no significant risk"?
Seriously?
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
|
Back to top |
|
|
RumiDude Marmota olympus
Joined: 26 Jul 2009 Posts: 3589 | TRs | Pics Location: Port Angeles |
|
RumiDude
Marmota olympus
|
Sat Sep 02, 2017 5:04 pm
|
|
|
"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
|
Back to top |
|
|
Ski ><((((°>
Joined: 28 May 2005 Posts: 12829 | TRs | Pics Location: tacoma |
|
Ski
><((((°>
|
Sat Sep 02, 2017 5:43 pm
|
|
|
Courtney Flatt, reporting for 'Crosscut' wrote: | Kurt Beardslee, the director of the Wild Fish Conservancy Northwest, said he is concerned about the environmental effects of this release and of net pens in general.
The Atlantic salmon bring with them pollution, virus and parasite amplification, and all that harms Pacific salmon and our waters, Beardslee said. |
^ That last sentence has not been definitively refuted by any reputable source thus far. On its own website, WDFW says they are "still evaluating" the "biological impacts" no less than two decades after large escapes of Atlantic Salmon.
Moreover, the issue of sourcing the product from which the "fish pellets" are made that feed these farm-raised fish (in aquatic "feed lots") has been completely ignored in virtually all of the articles thus far cited here.
These are the issues that get danced around and (apparently) ignored, in spite of their being raised repeatedly.
Pretending that these issues do not exist does not make them go away.
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
|
Back to top |
|
|
Gregory Member
Joined: 08 Mar 2014 Posts: 386 | TRs | Pics
|
|
Gregory
Member
|
Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:03 am
|
|
|
The ISA virus is the biggest documented concern.The state will tell you that cross breeding, competition for food and spawning habitat are the concerns when they are not.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/28/world/americas/28chile.html?mcubz=0
This article talks about the real danger to our wild salmon as Atlantic fish farms are concerned.
The truth of the matter our government and the ESA are more of a danger to our fish than these farmed fish.ESA listed fish are worth a lot more than can be made on the open market, especially when they have to compete with farm fish.These fish go from million dollar industry to billion dollar industry overnight when they get listed.Unfortunately, the people getting money to save the fish lose the money when they succeed.They are not there for the love of the fish but the love of the money.the fish stocks doing the worst here in Washington are the ones listed as endangered and have been finger flicked for around twenty years now by the ESA.This flies under the radar here because of a media afraid of the government and people that think it is the government's job to take care of them.Hell, it is wdfw that has completely mismanaged our fisheries with a crooked formula called maximum sustained yield.Basically, it means how many salmon can I kill and still have that year run come back in a couple three years.It does not work largely because the science is bought by tribal and commercial money.
|
Back to top |
|
|
Ski ><((((°>
Joined: 28 May 2005 Posts: 12829 | TRs | Pics Location: tacoma |
|
Ski
><((((°>
|
Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:30 am
|
|
|
Gregory wrote: | "...it is wdfw that has completely mismanaged our fisheries..." |
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
|
Back to top |
|
|
Ski ><((((°>
Joined: 28 May 2005 Posts: 12829 | TRs | Pics Location: tacoma |
|
Ski
><((((°>
|
Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:55 pm
|
|
|
one more reason for not eating farm-raised shrimp:
wild argentinian shrimp with farfalle 090317
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
|
Back to top |
|
|
Gregory Member
Joined: 08 Mar 2014 Posts: 386 | TRs | Pics
|
|
Gregory
Member
|
Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:13 am
|
|
|
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximum_sustainable_yield
MSY{maximum sustained yeild}does not work and the proof is in the pudding or the steady decline in our fisheries.The state will not leave it because it is easy to manipulate the math, twisting the formula to satisfy crooked politicians.People that trust government and science have emotional blinders on.Think about this.We paid WDFW to manage our fisheries and they have not only failed but have failed in a completely dishonest manner.Now instead of holding them accountable and firing the people that screwed us over the federal tax payers are going to hand over billions of dollars to let the fox fix the hen house.Eventually WDFW will get sued, actually they already are, The tax payers of the state will pay the settlements or judgements and still, nobody will be held accountable.Funny thing is that too many citizens of WA think suing the government is holding government accountable.
Here is a link documenting the crooked management by our government.Many in this discussion and website are actually insiders including a past wdfw director.Dam it late for woork!!!!!!!!
http://www.piscatorialpursuits.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/818529/FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET.html#Post818529
|
Back to top |
|
|
trestle Member
Joined: 17 Aug 2008 Posts: 2093 | TRs | Pics Location: the Oly Pen |
|
trestle
Member
|
Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:00 pm
|
|
|
Nothing like a good anti-government rant to start the day.
"Life favors the prepared." - Edna Mode
"Life favors the prepared." - Edna Mode
|
Back to top |
|
|
MtnGoat Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2001 Posts: 11992 | TRs | Pics Location: Lyle, WA |
|
MtnGoat
Member
|
Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:19 pm
|
|
|
Doppelganger wrote: | MtnGoat, do you agree that as humans we have the ability to affect ecosystems and the biosphere to greater extent and at greater speed than any other species (we know of)? With this in mind, are you truly willing to accept the negative consequences of human actions with a simple shrug? I fall in to the humans = natural = natural actions debate now and then, and it's always just a trap.
Next time there's an oil cleanup, I invite you to offer your opinion to each human and non-human you find on the beach and let us know how that went. |
Generally, sure.
Of course I am willing to accept them. I rank humans higher than other life forms, and there is a 'negative' associated with most human actions or choices. Take a step, kill bugs, eat, kill creatures where the food was grown, where it was moved, where the energy to cook it came from, etc etc. "Negative" impacts are inherent to human living because we always influence nature.
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
|
Back to top |
|
|
MtnGoat Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2001 Posts: 11992 | TRs | Pics Location: Lyle, WA |
|
MtnGoat
Member
|
Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:22 pm
|
|
|
Ski wrote: | Seriously? Twenty-one years later they're "still evaluating", but claim there is "no significant risk"?
Seriously? |
If it's been that long to evaluate, I'd think there is no significant risk. It's like the 'studies' of electric fields on human health. IF there was a distinct and valid statistical effect, it would show up super easy, since the size of the test population ranks in the billions.
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
|
Back to top |
|
|
Ski ><((((°>
Joined: 28 May 2005 Posts: 12829 | TRs | Pics Location: tacoma |
|
Ski
><((((°>
|
Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:46 pm
|
|
|
You'd think?
You mean you wouldn't know, correct?
Are you a fisheries biologist?
This isn't about "electric fields on human health". This is about an issue that threatens a native fish population that could, if it were restored to its historic levels, feed every man, woman, and child in Washington, Oregon, Idaho, and probably Montana too.
This isn't about "statistics", either. And the "test population" does not number in the billions, maybe not even in the millions.
This isn't some kind of game to be played with your never-ending philosophical arguments.
Some of us take it quite seriously. Your armchair quarterbacking with your ideological based arguments might fly in the "global warming" thread, but respectfully, I have to tell you that you clearly have no clue what you're talking about here.
MtnGoat wrote: | "Negative" impacts are inherent to human living because we always influence nature. |
^ This kind of rationalization for detrimental impacts by humans on an indigenous population of anadromous salmonids is simply tripe. Utter nonsense.
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
|
Back to top |
|
|
SingleShot Member
Joined: 20 Sep 2010 Posts: 119 | TRs | Pics
|
Interesting that a UW fisheries professor, Ray Hilborn, said calling this a disaster is a stretch
WDFW Volunteer Award recipient
WDFW Volunteer Award recipient
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Disclosure: As an Amazon Associate NWHikers.net earns from qualifying purchases when you use our link(s).
|