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MyFootHurts Huge Member
Joined: 22 Nov 2011 Posts: 912 | TRs | Pics Location: Kekistan |
Now you're just trolling.
I didn't compare it the Cambodian Genocide, I compared it to the revolutionary theory of erasing the culture and history of the target society.
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Ski ><((((°>
Joined: 28 May 2005 Posts: 12798 | TRs | Pics Location: tacoma |
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Ski
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Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:10 pm
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^ So.... what history and culture is being erased by renaming mountains?
What history and culture was erased when those mountains were named by white men of European descent?
The white settlers in this country did everything possible to erase the history and culture of the Native American population. In Guatemala, the Spanish burned the Mayan codices. Locally, sheep were turned loose on the Camas prairies, wiping out a staple food source that had been harvested for millennia. Children were forced to attend white schools, where they were punished for speaking their native tongue. Children were forced to drink cows milk that they were unable to digest, causing them severe gastrointestinal problems. Those that weren't killed off by smallpox or measles were systematically executed or herded onto reservations far away from their native lands.
How does renaming mountains undo any of that? So we can pretend that none of that ever happened?
What exactly is accomplished? Does this serve as some sort of atonement for the sins of our fathers? Will doing this assuage the collective guilt of white people? Will renaming mountains impel the Native American population to forgive and forget?
Are we better to rewrite history, or embrace its ugly realities?
Forgive me for being blunt: "political correctness" is for those who don't have the stomach (or cajones) to deal with truth and reality.
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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AlpineRose Member
Joined: 08 May 2012 Posts: 1953 | TRs | Pics
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We are a verbal species. Names are important. They hold meaning. That's why we name things. The name Tahoma is meaningful. Rainier is meaningless. When I look at that mountain, I am seeing a great white mountain (Tahoma), not a pasty-faced white male (Rainier). Renaming doesn't solve anything, per se. But it is adding back meaning.
WTF has political correctness got to do with that? Mere obfuscation, 'tis.
Is there anyone who has seen Everest, or even just looked at its picture, and not felt they've seen the goddess mother of the world (Chomolungma)?
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tmatlack Member
Joined: 21 Aug 2007 Posts: 2854 | TRs | Pics
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tmatlack
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Fri Oct 20, 2017 2:43 am
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Change the names back to Native:
1. The Native names are much more fun to say.
2. Cartographers, geographers, map publishers are underemployed and would enjoy the work
3. US History has too many dead white guys anyway.
4. This state is the worst example. Washington did not even know this place was here.
5. My high school students get the name of the state and our nation's capitol confused. Then we study Greek Mythology and find the gods in Olympus and it is truly a mess. Go ahead. Judge away. They won't care.
6. Crud. Forgot one. There are so many variations on spelling of Takhoma that you can do it differently every time and still get it right!! How fun is that!!!
Tom
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Randito Snarky Member
Joined: 27 Jul 2008 Posts: 9495 | TRs | Pics Location: Bellevue at the moment. |
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Randito
Snarky Member
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Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:12 am
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MyFootHurts wrote: | Now you're just trolling.
I didn't compare it the Cambodian Genocide, I compared it to the revolutionary theory of erasing the culture and history of the target society. |
The Cambodian Genocide is where your term "Year Zero" came from, so either you are being willfully blind or disingenuous.
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Randito Snarky Member
Joined: 27 Jul 2008 Posts: 9495 | TRs | Pics Location: Bellevue at the moment. |
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Randito
Snarky Member
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Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:16 am
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AlpineRose wrote: | When I look at that mountain, I am seeing a great white mountain (Tahoma), not a pasty-faced white male (Rainier). |
Hilariously the Wikipedia photo of Peter Rainier and the 14,410 ft mountain are disturbingly evocative.
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rbuzby Attention Surplus
Joined: 24 Feb 2009 Posts: 1006 | TRs | Pics
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rbuzby
Attention Surplus
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Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:45 am
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Removing Confederate monuments is in no way "revisionist history". In fact, those monuments were placed in an attempt to revise history in the early 20th century, to make the confederate side of the civil war look like a noble cause, instead of being about perpetuating slavery, which is what it was about, and what they all said it was about when they started the civil war.
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CC cascade curmudgeon
Joined: 13 Sep 2006 Posts: 647 | TRs | Pics
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CC
cascade curmudgeon
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Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:43 am
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MyFootHurts wrote: | Now you're just trolling. |
This is rich. The guy who puts up a confederate flag avatar to get a reaction, then changes it to a Washington Redskins avatar to get another reaction, accuses others of trolling. HODL.
First your legs go, then you lose your reflexes, then you lose your friends. Willy Pep
First your legs go, then you lose your reflexes, then you lose your friends. Willy Pep
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robertjoy Member
Joined: 25 Sep 2011 Posts: 107 | TRs | Pics
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The plethora of "generic" place names was not considered boring by our primitive pioneer forefathers who were very LOCAL in outlook. Uniqueness was not considered vital until modern times. (Portland, Oregon and Portland, Maine?) Native American names are one way to inject some uniqueness. However, the uniqueness may be only superficial; The case of DENALI is interesting in that it is very easy to read and pronounce, while most Native American names are not. Sadly, the name Denali translates to "High, or Tall", which could not be more boring. I suggest that if we want to consider re-naming a peak or feature, the name should be reasonably pronounceable with a translation that is not boring.
Mosquitoes refuse to bite me,
purely out of respect.
Mosquitoes refuse to bite me,
purely out of respect.
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Ski ><((((°>
Joined: 28 May 2005 Posts: 12798 | TRs | Pics Location: tacoma |
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Ski
><((((°>
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Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:33 pm
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robertjoy wrote: | "...Portland, Oregon..." |
^ named on a coin toss. formerly known as "Stumptown".
robertjoy wrote: | "...the name should be reasonably pronounceable..." |
absolutely! like "Pend Oreille" or "Coeur d'Alene", right?
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Randito Snarky Member
Joined: 27 Jul 2008 Posts: 9495 | TRs | Pics Location: Bellevue at the moment. |
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Randito
Snarky Member
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Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:54 pm
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Ski wrote: | absolutely! like "Pend Oreille" or "Coeur d'Alene", right? |
Perfectly pronouncible to speakers of French.
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Schroder Member
Joined: 26 Oct 2007 Posts: 6696 | TRs | Pics Location: on the beach |
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Schroder
Member
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Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:06 pm
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My vote is for maintaining the status quo & perhaps using older native names as subtitles. As names are changed places get lost. I have a difficult enough time finding historic sites from old written records and trying to find them on maps. Each name change obscures history even more.
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treeswarper Alleged Sockpuppet!
Joined: 25 Dec 2006 Posts: 11272 | TRs | Pics Location: Don't move here |
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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
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Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:19 pm
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Ski wrote: | absolutely! like "Pend Oreille" or "Coeur d'Alene", right? |
Those are easy to pronounce for those of us who are from here. I do find them hard to spell at times. Ponduhray especially so. Why couldn't the French spell things easier? Why!!
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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Ski ><((((°>
Joined: 28 May 2005 Posts: 12798 | TRs | Pics Location: tacoma |
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Ski
><((((°>
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Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:28 pm
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Schroder wrote: | Each name change obscures history even more. |
^ Yes. Like changing the name of a major arterial here - Sprague Avenue (named for the first mayor of the City of Tacoma) to "Tacoma Mall Boulevard".
treeswarper wrote: | Why couldn't the French spell things easier? |
You'll need to ask the Académie française about that one. Comprendez vous?
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Kim Brown Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2009 Posts: 6900 | TRs | Pics
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What's the reason to change - do the tribes care one way or the other? Would they be insulted if people charge ahead and advocate it without their input? Their input/opinion is the only important advice, esp. since various tribes have different names for our geography. White people have done enough, and though well-meaning, over-correcting because we feel guilty, is probably as insulting as the original slight. This kind of thing without the tribe's deep involvement usually doesn't go well.
If tribal consideration is truly the reason, involve the tribes.
If the tribes have other issues to worry about, then, as Schroder says, leave it.
It can be brought up another time when the tribes have the time to lend their advice.
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
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