Forum Index > Public Lands Stewardship > Global Warming
 This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.
Previous :: Next Topic
Author Message
Doppelganger





Doppelganger
PostFri Oct 20, 2017 2:17 pm 

Back to top This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.
MtnGoat
Member
Member


Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 11992 | TRs | Pics
Location: Lyle, WA
MtnGoat
Member
PostFri Oct 20, 2017 2:23 pm 
Lol this gets better and better. Doubling down on an explicit refusal to being open to revising ones thinking. Name calling over disagreement on science, dogmatic refusal to changing ideas, the judgment process provably occurring with these methods is deeply flawed There's nothing disgusting or irresponsible about standing firm on adherence to strict scientific method. It doesn't bend for your convenience. The nature and content of your criticisms, in fact, show how deeply personal the supposed science is to you, and this is exactly what scientific method is supposed to ameliorate. But this assumes one applies these methods, something totally incompatible with proud exhortations that ones mind cannot be changed. No word on Mann's honesty and your use of him as talisman/avatar, but you find time for attacks on me. smile.gif

Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Back to top This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies. Reply with quote Send private message
MtnGoat
Member
Member


Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 11992 | TRs | Pics
Location: Lyle, WA
MtnGoat
Member
PostMon Oct 23, 2017 10:04 am 
More plausible than the notion of a beneficial trace gas controlling the climate, but alas, the official version does much better box office...ask GE, Vesta, Al Gore, and Tesla wink.gif

Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Back to top This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies. Reply with quote Send private message
gb
Member
Member


Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 6310 | TRs | Pics
gb
Member
PostTue Oct 24, 2017 7:57 am 
MtnGoat wrote:
There's nothing disgusting or irresponsible about standing firm on adherence to strict scientific method. It doesn't bend for your convenience. The nature and content of your criticisms, in fact, show how deeply personal the supposed science is to you, and this is exactly what scientific method is supposed to ameliorate. But this assumes one applies these methods, something totally incompatible with proud exhortations that ones mind cannot be changed.
You are not "standing firm on strict scientific method", you are just trolling. You seek out the smallest snippets of half truths and then pretend that those half-truths reflect reality in Climate Science. You stand alone in either trolling or outright ignorance. Nobody takes you seriously.

Back to top This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies. Reply with quote Send private message
MtnGoat
Member
Member


Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 11992 | TRs | Pics
Location: Lyle, WA
MtnGoat
Member
PostTue Oct 24, 2017 9:08 am 
You're more than welcome to show where my arguments on scientific method are false. But you can't, so you don't. It's then the attack attack show. It doesn't matter who takes me seriously when my arguments cannot be shown to to be false. They stand or fall on their own merit, which is better than filling a post with accusations you can't back up. cool.gif At least you've backed off from outright claims that non falsifiable models are empirical evidence.

Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Back to top This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies. Reply with quote Send private message
Randito
Snarky Member



Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 9513 | TRs | Pics
Location: Bellevue at the moment.
Randito
Snarky Member
PostTue Oct 24, 2017 9:20 am 
MtnGoat wrote:
It doesn't matter who takes me seriously when my arguments cannot be shown to to be false
There is a wide gap between not being proven false and persuading others to your point of view. However it seems that you are mostly interested in pleasing yourself so I guess that doesn't matter.

Back to top This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies. Reply with quote Send private message
MtnGoat
Member
Member


Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 11992 | TRs | Pics
Location: Lyle, WA
MtnGoat
Member
PostTue Oct 24, 2017 9:57 am 
RandyHiker wrote:
There is a wide gap between not being proven false and persuading others to your point of view. However it seems that you are mostly interested in pleasing yourself so I guess that doesn't matter.
Who else is held to a standard of arguments which please other people when we're talking about science? IF someone's science beliefs are so rooted in emotion that disagreement displeases them to the point they can't rationally evaluate the arguments, there's a flaw in their judgement. If arguments which cannot be shown to be flawed are not taken with at least the grudging admission that there is a point there, then the person viewing the arguments is not as open to change as science requires. I am willing to accept any climate claims which have closed the loop between claims, falsifiability and empirical evidence. Clearly however, in my view climate claims do not meet this standard.

Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Back to top This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies. Reply with quote Send private message
Randito
Snarky Member



Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 9513 | TRs | Pics
Location: Bellevue at the moment.
Randito
Snarky Member
PostTue Oct 24, 2017 10:29 am 
MtnGoat wrote:
Who else is held to a standard of arguments which please other people when we're talking about science?
It seems you don't understand the scientific process. The whole concept of peer review is about persuading a preponderance of other scientists that your arguments/theory offers a better explanation of observational data. Asserting that your statements can't be proven false don't count for much in peer review.

Back to top This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies. Reply with quote Send private message
MtnGoat
Member
Member


Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 11992 | TRs | Pics
Location: Lyle, WA
MtnGoat
Member
PostTue Oct 24, 2017 10:42 am 
RandyHiker wrote:
It seems you don't understand the scientific process. The whole concept of peer review is about persuading a preponderance of other scientists that your arguments/theory offers a better explanation of observational data. Asserting that your statements can't be proven false don't count for much in peer review.
Where in the standard are arguments expected have a component to "please" other people, which is what you led with? It's...nowhere in there. Convincing other people is not 'persuasion' in the pleasing sense, it is showing them that alternative arguments have been falsified no matter how they feel about that. They can be as unpleased as it's possible to be about this, and still accept that the ideas in question have been falsified, like it or not. The concept of peer review doesn't include anything about convincing someone of an argument, and this is what has gone wrong with peer review. Peer review was solely intended as a review of the methods and arguments made with respect to scientific integrity of the practices and claims in a submission, not wether it agrees with any particular theory or orthodoxy. Was the data in the submission gathered and processed within the boundaries of standard method, were the practices scientific, etc. Does the papers evidence and ways of handling the data and arguments conform to scientific practice. Yes, pass it. No, do not. Regardless of it's impact on any existing ideas. What you describe as peer review is actually gate keeping and protection of existing theory. That's status quo protection, not science.

Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Back to top This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies. Reply with quote Send private message
Randito
Snarky Member



Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 9513 | TRs | Pics
Location: Bellevue at the moment.
Randito
Snarky Member
PostTue Oct 24, 2017 10:48 am 
MtnGoat wrote:
What you describe as peer review is actually gate keeping for a particular theory. That's status quo protection, not science.
As I said you don't seem to understand the scientific process. As with your alternative ideas about climate your have alternative ideas about science.

Back to top This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies. Reply with quote Send private message
MtnGoat
Member
Member


Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 11992 | TRs | Pics
Location: Lyle, WA
MtnGoat
Member
PostTue Oct 24, 2017 11:01 am 
Claiming they're 'alternative' without being able to show *details* of my arguments are false is merely another pronouncement. I present details within my arguments. You just say 'wrong', and think that's enough. While going on about persuading people, no less. Do you think it's persuasive to make claims without even providing any detail in substance, which supports them?

Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Back to top This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies. Reply with quote Send private message
Randito
Snarky Member



Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 9513 | TRs | Pics
Location: Bellevue at the moment.
Randito
Snarky Member
PostTue Oct 24, 2017 12:19 pm 
Perhaps you would prefer the term "non-conventional" since someone seems to have poisoned the term "alternative"

Back to top This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies. Reply with quote Send private message
MtnGoat
Member
Member


Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 11992 | TRs | Pics
Location: Lyle, WA
MtnGoat
Member
PostTue Oct 24, 2017 12:29 pm 
Sure, that's better. Peer review has never been about *agreeing* with a submission's conclusions per se. In fact if you read up on the peer review process, which I did during my coffee break for some further background, you find that the idea of reviewers judging a paper's ideas with respect to how they aid or harm their own beliefs, instead of merely reviewing the practices and methods pragmatically, is considered a problem. Which is as it should be..scientific method requires openness to arguments which upset paradigms, and you don't get that if peer review is refereeing content with respect to agreement with what they believe instead of with respect to proper methods regardless of what ideas they support.

Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Back to top This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies. Reply with quote Send private message
Randito
Snarky Member



Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 9513 | TRs | Pics
Location: Bellevue at the moment.
Randito
Snarky Member
PostTue Oct 24, 2017 1:34 pm 
A good example of the scientific method in practice is the process that occurred for accepting the "mega flood" theory for about eastern Washington landforms. This theory was initially rejected by the scientific community, but after many decades of additional research and with the addition of additional researchers also supporting the theory it was accepted. The current convention wisdom on the relationship between CO2 emissions and climate has taken since the 1760s to become the dominate theory. Apparently you feel that your insights are so meritorious that they should upset the conventional wisdom based on "they can't be proven false."

Back to top This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies. Reply with quote Send private message
CC
cascade curmudgeon



Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 647 | TRs | Pics
CC
cascade curmudgeon
PostTue Oct 24, 2017 2:29 pm 
MtnGoat wrote:
RandyHiker wrote:
There is a wide gap between not being proven false and persuading others to your point of view. However it seems that you are mostly interested in pleasing yourself so I guess that doesn't matter.
Who else is held to a standard of arguments which please other people when we're talking about science? IF someone's science beliefs are so rooted in emotion that disagreement displeases them to the point they can't rationally evaluate the arguments, there's a flaw in their judgement. If arguments which cannot be shown to be flawed are not taken with at least the grudging admission that there is a point there, then the person viewing the arguments is not as open to change as science requires. I am willing to accept any climate claims which have closed the loop between claims, falsifiability and empirical evidence. Clearly however, in my view climate claims do not meet this standard.
Scientific method, consensus, falsifiability, value judgments, yada, yada, yada. Enough already with the it's-all-about-the-science charade. Your stance on global warming has nothing to do with science. You don't know from science. It's all about your simple-minded ideology: markets always right, government always wrong, private good, public bad, government spending on a public service that doesn't benefit me directly and immediately worst of all.

First your legs go, then you lose your reflexes, then you lose your friends. Willy Pep
Back to top This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies. Reply with quote Send private message
   All times are GMT - 8 Hours
 This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.
Forum Index > Public Lands Stewardship > Global Warming
Jump to:   
Search this topic:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum