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Chico
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Joined: 30 Nov 2012
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Location: Lacey |
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Chico
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 Thu Aug 03, 2017 5:05 pm |
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NacMacFeegle
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Joined: 16 Jan 2014
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Location: United States |
Not really anything unusual or new about this - environmental groups have been restoring over-crowded low diversity commercial forests by thinning them for decades now. What's crazy is that most logging companies haven't embraced similar management techniques that would create healthier forests and produce more and higher quality lumber.
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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
Joined: 25 Dec 2006
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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
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Sun Aug 06, 2017 3:02 pm |
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| NacMacFeegle wrote: | | Not really anything unusual or new about this - environmental groups have been restoring over-crowded low diversity commercial forests by thinning them for decades now. What's crazy is that most logging companies haven't embraced similar management techniques that would create healthier forests and produce more and higher quality lumber. |
Please tell me which environmental group actually owns timber land other than the Nature Conservancy. Really. I'd like to know
The second part of your statement is false. Thinning is a commonly used technique and was even taught in college in the 1970s! The large working forest in my backyard undergoes commercial and non-commercial thins.
Logging companies seldom write the prescriptions for the land they log. Logging companies log. Landowners have a forest management plan that undergoes examination by the WA DNR. That is written by either the landowner or an expert hired by the landowner...might even be a FORESTER.
I gotta love it when some city people buy land, do what other long time land owners have been doing, but the newcomers deem it to be new and special.
Low diversity? Explain please. Here in Western WA lower elevation forests consisted of what is grown commercially today--Douglas fir, Western Hemlock and Western Red Cedar in my part of the world and those are what I see in the commercial forests, when I get out of my vehicle and walk and look. One landowner even planted our native Red Alder after they clearcut. I guess planting it gave them a bit of a head start over nature. Now, in some of their clearcuts, which may have been clearcut due to the presence of root rot, they have planted Western White Pine. Hemlock and DF will seen in naturally over time. In fact, I've always found that hemlock will seed in and grow amongst the planted DF.
Get out and take a look. Read some of the literature put out by industry and forestry people. I bet they are more up to date on what is going on than the usual enviro groups who Need Your Donation.
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human末animals and aliens are great possibilities
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human末animals and aliens are great possibilities
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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
Joined: 25 Dec 2006
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treeswarper
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Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:43 am |
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What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human末animals and aliens are great possibilities
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Schenk
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Joined: 16 Apr 2012
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Location: Traveling, with the bear, to the other side of the Mountain |
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Schenk
Off Leash Man
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Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:09 am |
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| treeswarper wrote: | | Get out and take a look. |
I get out, I looked. Lower Western Washington forests are not the only lands being logged out there.
Been up the St Joe River, in Idaho, in the last 20 years? Especially south of the river? Mostly private timber company land around there.
No thinning...I have seen only clear cutting, and I get all around those parts. Then they spray it all with glyphosate...nothing sprouts for full season. Then after that, they replant a single species.
Nature exists with a stark indifference to humans' situation.
Nature exists with a stark indifference to humans' situation.
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treeswarper
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Joined: 25 Dec 2006
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treeswarper
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Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:34 am |
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Well, Idaho is often behind the times a bit and does not have the regulations that we have here.
It is said that Warshington has the toughest forest practice laws in the country.
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human末animals and aliens are great possibilities
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human末animals and aliens are great possibilities
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trestle
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Joined: 17 Aug 2008
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trestle
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Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:59 pm |
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| NacMacFeegle wrote: | | environmental groups have been restoring over-crowded low diversity commercial forests by thinning them for decades now |
Please provide an example as this statement seems unlikely.
"Life favors the prepared." - Edna Mode
"Life favors the prepared." - Edna Mode
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Pyrites
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Joined: 16 Sep 2014
Posts: 1884 | TRs | Pics
Location: South Sound |
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Pyrites
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Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:12 pm |
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I can claim to have lived summers in the area you mention. Home was the old Round Top WC, the former Round Top Ranger Station, back when it was its own district.
Nothing besides an open spot now. Someone even managed to burn down a later built snowmobilers warmup shack.
Middle Sister and Snow Peak still have lookouts.
Best.
Keep Calm and Carry On?
Heck No.
Stay Excited and Get Outside!
Keep Calm and Carry On?
Heck No.
Stay Excited and Get Outside!
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Pyrites
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Pyrites
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Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:14 pm |
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Keep Calm and Carry On?
Heck No.
Stay Excited and Get Outside!
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Ski
><((((ｰ>
Joined: 28 May 2005
Posts: 12830 | TRs | Pics
Location: tacoma |
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Ski
><((((ｰ>
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Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:27 pm |
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^ Jack Ward Thomas wrote an essay several years ago, the main theme of which was the the Northwest Forest Plan was unsustainable.
The idea that all of Western Washington would (or should) be late-seral forest is folly; it was never that way historically (or pre-historically) due to manipulation of the landscape by both naturally occurring events and the actions of aboriginal tribesmen.
Franklin's plans might well be a means to put things back into some semblance of "balance", but if the lands management agencies are going to insist on replanting with Douglas Fir (as mentioned in the article) it's all just an exercise in futility.
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Pyrites
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Pyrites
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Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:38 pm |
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I assume Dr. Franklin would have been more pleased if they planted half the unit and did nothing in the other half. Twice the common spacing was probably a near worst case scenario for his work.
Keep Calm and Carry On?
Heck No.
Stay Excited and Get Outside!
Keep Calm and Carry On?
Heck No.
Stay Excited and Get Outside!
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Ski
><((((ｰ>
Joined: 28 May 2005
Posts: 12830 | TRs | Pics
Location: tacoma |
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Ski
><((((ｰ>
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Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:07 am |
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^ good point.
a common theme in the comments from both myself and treeswarper on timber harvesting and forest management is the dearth of open space being left.
treeswarper wants huckleberry habitat, one of the things you get when you create openings.
the other benefits of openings are mentioned in the article.
the fact is: in pre-Columbian times there were lots of openings. take a look at any of those old Osborne panoramic photos taken in the 1920s or 1930s - I have yet to see one of those photo images that did not show a lot of openings somewhere in the background.
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 11276 | TRs | Pics
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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
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Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:06 pm |
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Land management agencies plant the species that fits the area. Doug for is what would grow naturally in the coastal range out of Corvallis. Western hemlock will seed in on its own, as might alder.
There is also a law requiring areas to meet reforestation requirements. That would also need to be changed.
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human末animals and aliens are great possibilities
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human末animals and aliens are great possibilities
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Ski
><((((ｰ>
Joined: 28 May 2005
Posts: 12830 | TRs | Pics
Location: tacoma |
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Ski
><((((ｰ>
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Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:47 pm |
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| treeswarper wrote: | | There is also a law requiring areas to meet reforestation requirements. That would also need to be changed. |
I know that. That law makes it not possible for this sort of management to take place until some revision is the law is made.
Are the "Adaptive Management Areas" still a thing, or have they done away with the "AMA" thing? Those areas, if the "AMA" program is still in effect, would be potential areas where this idea might be implemented.
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 11276 | TRs | Pics
Location: Don't move here |
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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
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Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:34 pm |
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Unless the Forest Plan has been amended, there are AMAs.
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human末animals and aliens are great possibilities
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human末animals and aliens are great possibilities
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