[wiki summary]

Among other thought provoking questions... should you post pictures for the 2018 NWH Calendar? Reminder: Deadline is Nov 15, 2017!

[DIYSteve]

[Foist]

[cartman]

[RumiDude]

In my experience, I have never run into anyone which their GPS unit in hand trying to follow a track. I have seen lots of people pull their GPS out, check on it and then say something like, "I/We need to go there", while pointing at a landmark. I have not come across anyone who was a slave to the GPS track. YMMV The only instances I have ever kept my GPS out and used it to navigate every few steps have been in whiteout conditions. One occasion I remember vividly was returning to camp coming back down off Mt Shasta in a blinding snow storm on December 31, 2002. Having GPS allowed us to get back to our tents well after sunset in a whiteout snowstorm. Saved us from an uncomfortable night out in weather. A few other similar occasions I have used GPS similarly. Rumi

[Brian Curtis]

I've followed a GPS track very closely while navigating a snow covered trail. In spots were there were gaps in the snow I found myself on the trail. Not close by, but right on the trail each time. It makes navigating really, really easy. I see GPS tracks or red-lined maps as high tech flags or cairns. Anybody who thinks Bedivere's sarcasm is a straw man just has to look as far as my sig. I have been called several names because I don't post TRs to cross-country destinations. And Foist, you can't on the one hand say that nobody is saying someone is a bad person if you don't post a trip report and on the other hand say that it was selfish when you don't post a trip report. You can't have it both ways. I should note that I don't refrain from posting TRs because I want to keep that place to myself. I rarely go back to the same place twice. I would far rather explore a new location then return to someplace I have already been. But I still won't post a TR because I feel that any impacts caused by someone following my TR is my responsibility. As has been pointed out here many times. No place is secret or unknown or unknowable. The resources to get anywhere is all readily available without anyone posting red line maps. It just takes the knowledge and skill to use readily available maps and other resources to figure out a route.

[joker]

[Justus S.]

For me I kinda of like route maps. I love maps in general, and I usually get some enjoyment out of any map. It helps me understand the story a bit more. If folks don't want to post a map that's fine too. I sometimes use others maps in TRs to get places, sometimes I just go without looking a place up and just follow my own path. GPS I've used it a little more recently, but just to show me a dot on a map. I don't use gps tracks or make gps tracks. Posting a map to places easily accessible by trail I'd think could help reduce multiple treads, if one is already forming. I think a number of times I've cut off a trail and headed up to some place only to find out there is already a path up there. I usually go solo, so I have much lower impact but a bigger group.... Since, I usually just use older 24' maps I've also done some offtrail when there were trail reroutes possibly impacting the area more than had I known. Personally, I don't care that I didn't have the latest redline but just sayin. Pictures in a report are probably the biggest draw for folks and probably have more impact than a report and a map. IMO, Nwhikers is pretty low impact... typically perused more by folks that would actually go to a place with or without a map in a TR. I don't follow some of those popular social media hiking pages so maybe folks are seeing some crazy stuff happening with maps/gps tracks. I have a few younger friends that get out and talk about going to more obsure places but haven't really been out with them to see how they figured out how to get there. I do know popular and easy access places with trails are getting overrun near the city. My general feeling is when you add millions of folks to an area the nice places are going to get overrun eventually. Will the percentage of GPS only followers with no offtrail experience ruin everything, I don't know. I don't know how places will look in 20years.... I've posted redlines cause it's sometimes easier than typing directions. I post trs based on what I tend to like, sometimes I post maps sometimes not. Probably won't ever post GPS tracks just not something I'm in to. To post no maps at all, not sure I'm there yet. Maybe a map to a more obscure place helps take some of the stress off the nicer places...? I might actually go back to some places if a climbers path developed : I've also followed many tracks/trails put in by animals. In reality, I don't usually go to the nicest places much The nicer places somewhat off the path I have gone to recently still seemed nice. It's an interesting discussion and something to keep tabs on. Now it's time to start thinking about my next hike:)

[Cyclopath]

[Foist]

[pcg]

I know this thread is about posting GPS tracks, but it keeps making me ponder why people post trip reports in the first place. I think understanding this and putting it in perspective establishes a good platform for debating the pros and cons of posting GPS tracks. So… Why do people post trip reports? 1) An ego thing… here’s what I did today. This helps establish to the community that I am (fill in the blank.) or 2) As a service to show others new places they can go. or 3) As a service to show others current conditions on a popular trail. Any other reasons?

[Cyclopath]

[RumiDude]

[olderthanIusedtobe]

I've never understood the angst and sense of "guarding a secret" in regards to either the Bathtubs or Horseshoe. I found both relatively easily w/ no beta, long before I had any clue NWHikers existed (or possibly before it did exist, in fact). Horseshoe is right there in the Spring/Manning guide books. From the summit of Pilchuck there is an indication there are lakes over there somewhere, and you literally just follow the yellow dotted line (I've never come up from Iodine Gulch). These places aren't secret, haven't been for many decades I'm sure. Anyway I thought those two were kind of passe and we've moved on to other, more remote "secret places" getting defiled currently.

[Waterman]

Is anything really secret anymore? Manning wrote the text for the old guidebooks in which he most always encouraged you to read between the lines and keep going. In every case there has been a fishermans boot path or game trail leading the way. The skills required to navigate off trail are essential for safe travel. Over reliance on technology is never good. I have encountered a solo hiker looking for a bridge that my map clearly showed as being washed out, the trail rerouted. Yet this person refused to consider the evidence. The metro area as we have all seen is getting over crowded. The best we can hope for is encourage fellow hikers to minimize their impact. To clean up after others if we must.To think before we post. Is there a need for another Thunder Mountain trip report. Jade lake is the most recent example of a nice place becoming over run by those who probably should go to lake Dorthey. I have to admit I enjoy reading trip reports of someone getting to places like Bannock lakes. It's been on my tick list for years. I read a post like that and I start making plans. This makes me part of the problem. We all need to look in the mirror. Drawing a red line to such a place is a bad idea.

[cascadetraverser]

So not every red line is the same; I have followed Crowder and Tabor`s, Becky`s and a few people`s on this site. Some are perfectly detailed, others broadstrokes and many in between. Having followed red lines, followed route descriptions and gone out cold with minimal beta in my traverses, it seems all ways are hard and fun, and I am not sure there is much difference between them. Therefore, I am not really sure having the redline is all that big a deal. If you don`t have the skills to do the routes, I am pretty sure you are going to be headed home soon with or without a red line. I can`t really comment on GPS, as I don`t use it much and honestly can`t quite fathom how one would give up the map, compass and the landscape to rely so heavily on those things....An occasional position check, sure. I have done a few traverses more than once with some years in between and honestly (with the exception of the Ptarmigan and Bailey) the terrain doesn`t seem to be worse for the wear. One question I have is, those people so adamantly against the red lines have surely followed other`s red lines into terra incognito, have they not?? Seems like it is an individual thing. Find a secret place then don`t post and hope it stays that way....