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MtnGoat Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2001 Posts: 11992 | TRs | Pics Location: Lyle, WA |
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MtnGoat
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Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:38 am
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Ski wrote: | Let me ask: WHY is the pastor's statement even included in the article? How is it even relevant to the issue at hand?
The kid's been living here for most of his life, unless I'm misunderstanding the artlcle. His parents didn't move here last week.
It's not "his country"?
Seriously?
Inexcusable. |
Agree.
The fact that this clown is being tried in seekret mere blocks away from work, ticks me off no end.
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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MtnGoat Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2001 Posts: 11992 | TRs | Pics Location: Lyle, WA |
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MtnGoat
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Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:02 pm
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I don't hold high hopes for the law's turn. He should do serious time and serve as an example.
Nothing will restore what he destroyed but time, and the losses and aggravation of tens of thousands of people will never be matched or replaced by him or his family, regardless of liability or their ability to pay. I don't expect restoration or repayment because it's impossible.
What remains is justice and that is served by serious punishment.
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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moonspots Happy Curmudgeon
Joined: 03 Feb 2007 Posts: 2456 | TRs | Pics Location: North Dakota |
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moonspots
Happy Curmudgeon
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Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:13 pm
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MtnGoat wrote: | I don't hold high hopes for the law's turn. He should do serious time and serve as an example.
Nothing will restore what he destroyed but time, and the losses and aggravation of tens of thousands of people will never be matched or replaced by him or his family, regardless of liability or their ability to pay. I don't expect restoration or repayment because it's impossible.
What remains is justice and that is served by serious punishment. |
I agree, seriously agree. And to then read this quote "The boy who started the Eagle Creek fire is a teen. Teens do this kind of thing all the time. It was a terrible human mistake," just angers me! No, teens DON'T do this kind of thing "all the time". I knew better when I was that age, so should he.
And after reading that 7 1/2 years is the (minimum) sentence for reckless burning (or however it's termed), I think that everyone who WAS affected should file legal charges against him and his estate.
"Out, OUT you demons of Stupidity"! - St Dogbert, patron Saint of Technology
"Out, OUT you demons of Stupidity"! - St Dogbert, patron Saint of Technology
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MtnGoat Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2001 Posts: 11992 | TRs | Pics Location: Lyle, WA |
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MtnGoat
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Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:16 pm
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I predict a hand slapping with some community service and a lot of 'what about the kid'.
What about the rest of us? When does what we suffered, count?
The 'what do you expect me to do about it now' comment, speaks to his frame of mind. As does the escape attempt. He's sorry....that he got caught.
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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moonspots Happy Curmudgeon
Joined: 03 Feb 2007 Posts: 2456 | TRs | Pics Location: North Dakota |
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moonspots
Happy Curmudgeon
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Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:26 pm
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MtnGoat wrote: | The 'what do you expect me to do about it now' comment, speaks to his frame of mind. As does the escape attempt. He's sorry....that he got caught. |
That's what I thought when I read it. And I still think that treeswarper's suggestion that he be "offered" a place on a fire crew for several years was a good idea.
A few weeks ago I wrote to the Oregon Governor's office expressing my opinion, and asking for a reply. ....crickets so far.... So much for government "of the people BY the people"... Grrrr
"Out, OUT you demons of Stupidity"! - St Dogbert, patron Saint of Technology
"Out, OUT you demons of Stupidity"! - St Dogbert, patron Saint of Technology
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drm Member
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 1376 | TRs | Pics Location: The Dalles, OR |
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drm
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Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:46 pm
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First, I heard that his parents tried to get him away from law enforcement in the immediate aftermath, so I'm not sure they are entirely innocent. As to what punishment is appropriate, for me that would depend a lot on whether he has some kind of record. If he has committed vandalism and such in the past indicating a pattern of behavior, then more serious punishment is justified.
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Ski ><((((°>
Joined: 28 May 2005 Posts: 12831 | TRs | Pics Location: tacoma |
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Ski
><((((°>
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Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:33 pm
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Doppelganger wrote: | They quoted the pastor because, surprise, it's a news organization and they found someone who was willing to make a statement and had some oblique relation to the story. Call the Oregonian and ask them why they made this choice if it's ruining your day, you need some perspective here, the newspaper made the choice to find and run this quote. |
Well, why not just find some random guy on the street to get a quote from then? It would be equally relevant.
Either you willfully chose to misconstrue my statement above, or you didn't understand it. Perhaps I wasn't being clear enough.
What pissed me off about it (and no, it didn't "ruin my day") was the statement about "We are not in our country."
Really? The pastor obviously lives here and he has a congregation here. If he's not "in his country", where is he? If "his country" is somewhere else, why is he here?
My guess is that the kid is a US citizen, or has he been here on a visitor's visa?
If you move here, and you live here, and you've been living here, it is your country.
What part of that is difficult to understand?
Or maybe the pastor's statement is supposed to imply that this sort of behavior would be okay in Ukraine? My guess is that if you torched 50,000 acres over there, destroying several homes in the process, you'd be in deep doo-doo. Maybe not - I'm not familiar with Ukrainian law.
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Ski ><((((°>
Joined: 28 May 2005 Posts: 12831 | TRs | Pics Location: tacoma |
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Ski
><((((°>
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Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:45 pm
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Doppelganger wrote: | "...where their community is isolated..." |
What evidence do you have that is the case?
If their community is isolated, why is that? Is it isolated by their own choice, or because the local population has isolated them?
Sorry, I'm not buying it. It's tribalism at its worst.
If they are "isolated" perhaps they need to look at the reasons why.
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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RumiDude Marmota olympus
Joined: 26 Jul 2009 Posts: 3590 | TRs | Pics Location: Port Angeles |
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RumiDude
Marmota olympus
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Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:00 pm
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Personally, I think a reasonable fine and a long stretch of community service is what's called for here. This act was monumentally stupid but doesn't seem to have been intended as anything but a goof.
Let's face it, there is no way to undo the damage done and there is no way to recoup the financial losses incurred by all affected. There is no purpose served trying to destroy the kids lives or that of their families.
I hate what happened but in the end no lives were lost. We should allow the courts to do their job and go on with our lives, living forward in optimism rather than in the past and the anger we might feel about this.
Rumi
"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
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treeswarper Alleged Sockpuppet!
Joined: 25 Dec 2006 Posts: 11276 | TRs | Pics Location: Don't move here |
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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
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Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:06 pm
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The way things are going, if the kid immigrated here legally or not, he faces a good chance of deportation. The ICE people are rounding up immigrants with criminal convictions. Maybe that would be good for the kid? Oh well.
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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Ski ><((((°>
Joined: 28 May 2005 Posts: 12831 | TRs | Pics Location: tacoma |
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Ski
><((((°>
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Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:09 pm
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RumiDude wrote: | "...a reasonable fine and a long stretch of community service is what's called for here..." |
That is probably the best that can be hoped for.
I think there's a distinction, though, between "monumentally stupid" and "willfully negligent", and in this case I think he's guilty of both.
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Pyrites Member
Joined: 16 Sep 2014 Posts: 1884 | TRs | Pics Location: South Sound |
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Pyrites
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Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:19 pm
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Keep Calm and Carry On?
Heck No.
Stay Excited and Get Outside!
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MyFootHurts Huge Member
Joined: 22 Nov 2011 Posts: 912 | TRs | Pics Location: Kekistan |
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grannyhiker Member
Joined: 29 Jul 2006 Posts: 3519 | TRs | Pics Location: Gateway to the Columbia Gorge |
Big news! The USFS is starting to put in volunteer trail crews to start rebuilding.
Crews will be from the following organizations, members of the Gorge Trails Recovery Team: [I didn't attempt live links to these organizations because they are on this page]
Trailkeepers of Oregon: trailkeepersoforegon.org
Pacific Crest Trail Association: eventbrite.com/o/pacific-crest-trail-association-mount-hood-chapter-15326589343
Friends of the Columbia Gorge: gorgefriends.org/firestewardship
Washington Trails Association: wta.org/news/signpost/gorge-trail-recovery-efforts
Contact one of these organizations if you're interested in helping. You must be preregistered to participate.
i suspect that all may be on hold during the federal government shutdown, but in the meantime the organizations listed (not government) are gathering and organizing volunteers, so you don't need to wait.
Here's the very sad trails inventory as of January 18, with photos.
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view.--E.Abbey
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view.--E.Abbey
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thunderhead Member
Joined: 14 Oct 2015 Posts: 1519 | TRs | Pics
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