Forum Index > Full Moon Saloon > worth it to fight red light ticket (on camera)
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UWW
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UWW
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PostWed Dec 06, 2017 9:30 am 
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaggy_defense

https://vimeo.com/26402653
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Adohrn
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PostWed Dec 06, 2017 10:22 am 
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I personally have no sympathy at all for these traffic cams and the cities who use them. They are mostly run by private companies who rig the lights.   I donít remember the stats, but it was something like  letís say the average yellow light was 5 seconds which allows 90 something percent of the people who hit the light as it turns yellow time to exit the intersection before it turns red.  After the traffic cams the yellow was set to 4 seconds which lets only 70% to exit before it turns red.  Lots and lots of tickets and revenue for the city, but for sure a crooked situation.  So before anyone gets to upset about right and wrong you might want to do a little investigating.
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altasnob
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PostWed Dec 06, 2017 10:29 am 
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Yes, traffic camera infractions are a massive money maker for cities (as are parking tickets). If this upsets you I encourage you to contact your local state representative and encourage them to pass a law making camera infractions illegal. Right now, the majority of Washingtonians apparently think camera infractions are a good thing. Also, if a driver enters an intersection when a light is yellow, and it turns red while the driver is already in the intersection, you have not committed an infraction.
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pcg
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PostWed Dec 06, 2017 10:56 am 
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cdestroyer wrote:
what a bunch of wimpy hypocrites! dozens of postings on this forum complaining about people doing the 'right' thing and here the op confesses to running a red light and now wants to 'fight it'! what if they had clipped someone?   buck up, pay the ticket and admit to the mistake!!

this
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Adohrn
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PostWed Dec 06, 2017 11:29 am 
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Altasnob Iíam not talking about the light turning red as your in the middle of the intersection.   Iíam talking about about that split second decision of of do I slam on my brakes or go through the intersection at the end of the light cycle.   A second or 2 cut from the yellow light cycle makes a huge difference on the number of people technically running a light.   Yea it would be nice if people objected, but letís be realistic how mad do you have to make the general population before they band together and do something.   A lot of shady things cities and politicians do rely on this. As for if the general population loves traffic light cameras Iíam highly skeptical.  I for sure know Iíve never seen the question on a ballot.
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Hiker Mama
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PostWed Dec 06, 2017 11:39 am 
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Lynnwood has a ton of red light cameras, so this topic comes up all the time on the local mom forums. Most people have found (and someone in my family just had personal experience with this) that you can write a polite letter saying it was a mistake, you're generally a good driver, never had a ticket, whatever kind of truthful evidence you can come up with, and ask for a deferral or reduction in cost. Usually, according to the wisdom of local mom groups on the internet, the fee is reduced in half (this was our experience) or deferred until you mess up again.

May the force be with you. For us it was worth the few minutes it took to compose a letter and send it for the fee to be reduced.

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My hiking w/ kids site: www.thehikermama.com
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altasnob
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PostWed Dec 06, 2017 1:05 pm 
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As I previously mentioned, you can ask to mitigate (reduce the fine) on a traffic camera infraction. You can do this for any infraction (traffic camera infraction, regular speeding ticket, ect.). But is important to remember that when you mitigate, you are saying you did the infraction and a finding of committed will be entered. For camera infraction this does not matter much because it is not on your driving record. So go ahead and mitigate.

As for doing a deferral on a camera infraction, here are a couple things to keep in mind. A "deferral" on an infraction in Washington is permitted under RCW 46.63.0705(a) which states:

"(5)(a) Except as provided in (b), (c), and (d) of this subsection, in hearings conducted pursuant to subsections (3) and (4) of this section, the court may defer findings, or in a hearing to explain mitigating circumstances may defer entry of its order, for up to one year and impose conditions upon the defendant the court deems appropriate. Upon deferring findings, the court may assess costs as the court deems appropriate for administrative processing. If at the end of the deferral period the defendant has met all conditions and has not been determined to have committed another traffic infraction, the court may dismiss the infraction.
(b) A person may not receive more than one deferral within a seven-year period for traffic infractions for moving violations and more than one deferral within a seven-year period for traffic infractions for nonmoving violations.
(c) A person who is the holder of a commercial driver's license or who was operating a commercial motor vehicle at the time of the violation may not receive a deferral under this section.
(d) A person who commits negligent driving in the second degree with a vulnerable user victim may not receive a deferral for this infraction under this section."

So if you use your the one deferral you get every seven years on a camera infraction, you cannot use the deferral for another seven years (at least on a non-moving infraction). Since traffic camera infractions are "non-moving" this is not that big of a deal because it is "moving" infractions you care about, which go on your driving record. And using the "deferral" on a non-moving camera infraction should still preserve the deferral you are allotted every seven years for moving infractions.  Some courts will make you pay a higher fine for a deferral than you would if you just mitigated. So while the deferral may end with a dismissal, does that even matter when the outcome of the case does not go on your driving record. Judges are not being nice when they mitigate an infraction or allow you to do a deferral. They are just letting you exercise rights you have under the law. Also note the court is not supposed to let you do a deferral if you have a CDL, even if you were not using the CDL at the time of the infraction.
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Chief Joseph
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PostWed Dec 06, 2017 3:59 pm 
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I loathe these traffic cams, they should be illegal. As I understand the law if your car is halfway into the intersection when the light turns red, then it's not a violation, maybe someone can clarify?

I am surprised they haven't caught me (yet)....the one I really need to stop doing is turning left on a yellow, since it takes way longer to clear the intersection when doing so.

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Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
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Slim
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PostWed Dec 06, 2017 4:32 pm 
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My wife just got a red light ticket for going 27 in a 20 MPH school zone in Seattle.

She submitted a statement saying that yes, she was guilty but there were extenuating circumstances - she was in a caravan of cars and trying to keep up.

The judge reduced the fine from $240 to $100.

So you could do the same saying that you had a balling kid in the back seat and were rushing to get home or whatever.  And you can submit the statement via a website so no need to actually go to court.

No moral conundrums that way and still the possibility of getting the fine reduced.

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Not all who wonder are lust
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Trailhead
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Trailhead
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PostWed Dec 06, 2017 8:23 pm 
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I wouldn't use any form of "I had a kid in the car so I ran a red light" excuse.
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Damian
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PostWed Dec 06, 2017 8:27 pm 
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iron wrote:
opted for a slight run of a red light. is it worth my time to fight it?

I'm confused what it is you plan to fight.

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Be kind to others, for everyone carries a heavy burden.   -Rev Dale Turner
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DIYSteve
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DIYSteve
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PostThu Dec 07, 2017 11:57 am 
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Jeff wrote:
So, no, they cant. Fight it and you will win.

Not quite. See altasnob's cite to relevant statute. The vehicle's registered owner is presumed to be the driver, thus the burden of proof re driver ID is shifted to the defendant. If iron (or iron's marital community) is the registered owner, the only way to fight it on the merits would require a false statement made under penalty of perjury. The alternative is to ask for a reduction per mitigating circumstances.

When I hear bellyaching about camera lights, I remember my college friend, who became a legally blind quadriplegic when another driver T-boned him after running a red light. Witnesses testified that the light was "orange" (yellow turning to red) when the driver was 50-100' from the light and hit the gas to make it through the light, resulting in him entering the intersection well above the speed limit under a red light when he T-boned my bud. It was a hit and run, and AFAIK the driver escaped criminal and civil liability. A camera light would have likely have resulted in IDing the ass####. My bud, a Vietnam vet, died an early death after 20 miserable years of being crippled and blind.

Lesson: Don't drive through a red light, nor an orange light, and if you get hit with a camera ticket, pay it and be thankful you didn't kill or cripple somebody.
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Leafguy
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PostThu Dec 07, 2017 1:56 pm 
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Just ask to see the video. I would guess most people just pay it when offered this option.  hockeygrin.gif
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Riverside Laker
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PostThu Dec 07, 2017 3:25 pm 
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I hate it when I get caught doing something wrong. It's a travesty!

Once I was racing to a trailhead to meet some folks on the Mtn Loop, and got caught speeding in Granite Falls. I thought I'd go to court since I'd never been in court before, and maybe the experience would complete my civics training. Court was in Arlington. There were about 40 people in the room, criminals like me who should get off scott free.

The first person came up to the judge, explained that she parked wrong, blah, blah, blah, and the judge slammed down his gavel and cut the fine in half.

Second person walked up, was caught smoking as a minor, said the cop was all wrong, she was in the right, blah, blah, blah. Judge slammed the gavel and cut the fine in half.

Third person walked up, speeding violation, blah, blah, blah. Slam! Fine cut in half.

After the third person, the judge was no longer interested in hearing any lame stories. My prepared story was that I was guilty, but was interested in seeing the court in action, thus I showed up to learn about government. But none of the rest of us got to tell any stores. Each one, in turn, walked up, BANG! Fine cut in half. POW! Fine halved. BOOM! Divided by two.

Well, that was the Arlington system I s'pose. Cost me a  vacation day but saved something like $50. Also found a neato juice can at the near by store that ended up being my favorite alcohol stove.
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HermitThrush
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PostThu Dec 07, 2017 11:36 pm 
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I'd just pay it.
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