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Ringangleclaw
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Ringangleclaw
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PostThu Dec 07, 2017 9:22 pm 
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RandyHiker wrote:
for every snowshoers that "gets educated" by a skier about uptrack protocol.........

........there is a skiier with four flat tires
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pcg
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PostThu Dec 07, 2017 9:34 pm 
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ale_capone wrote:
Where do the paw prints go?

Anywhere but on the ski tracks. Please.
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RandyHiker
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PostThu Dec 07, 2017 9:45 pm 
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Ringangleclaw wrote:
RandyHiker wrote:
for every snowshoers that "gets educated" by a skier about uptrack protocol.........

........there is a skiier with four flat tires

Exactly -- be nice say "Hi"  make friends not enemies.
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joker
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PostThu Dec 07, 2017 11:03 pm 
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Sounds like asking nicely may be working in some places, based on the report from Steve. What do you know? :-) I find it to be a bigger impact on mellow terrain with kick and glide skis. When I've set a new track well to the side of established snowshoe tracks I've wished that the snowshoers who followed had resisted the of magnetic attraction of my tracks. But I felt no vitriol and didn't grouse to any snowshoers. But I will not tell a lie. I wouldn't have minded if we'd had a smooth track  to kick and glide fluidly in on the return. Still had lots of fun whenever this has happened though.

Grousing about grousing otoh... ;-)
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RumiDude
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RumiDude
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PostFri Dec 08, 2017 12:29 am 
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joker wrote:
But I felt no vitriol and didn't grouse to any snowshoers.

Good on you! Too many with a chip on their shoulder looking for someone to knock it off. 

It's like listening to a Beethoven symphony on a CD that has one small skip in it. Don't let that skip spoil all the other minutes of listening pleasure. I admit that is easier said than done, but if one puts their mind to it, it can be done.

Rumi    <~~~~skips

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Valhalla Outdoors
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treeswarper
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PostFri Dec 08, 2017 6:47 am 
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Oh my!  Forgive me for I have sinned by showing the White Pass nordic area's sign of how to get along.  Guess it cannot be used for showing a way to share whether on or off an evil groomed trail.

Off a groomed trail, I'd have no qualms about skiing my own route nor about having an unleashed beast of hell along (when leashes are not required) and we'd bust through the snow and scar the heather, throw up a few cairns, hang some flagging and god forbid, have some fun out there without endless pondering about not picking up that strand of hair that came off along the way or leaving snot molecules in the snow.

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What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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ale_capone
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ale_capone
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PostFri Dec 08, 2017 7:33 am 
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Dont worry, I don't take my dog to cross country areas. I've taken my dog to the Stevens nordique area one time, when it was frozen solid. Seen one x skier. He kindly reminded me no dogs, but after a very short talk, we laughed it off. You could have walked an elephant that day, and left a print.

I'm genuinely friendly when seeing people out in the snow, regardless of their mode of travel, or whatever sillyness they are engaged in. No problems with sharing the trail.

As for turn farming.

Not happening. Choosing my own up and decent routes is one of the main reasons I go in the Backcountry. Getting the pleasure of up isn't always there. I'm not giving up the fun and creativity to the first guy who bounced his way down.

Although I can't really think of anywhere along highway two that it would be possible. Terrain and trees dictate the decent..
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rossb
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PostFri Dec 08, 2017 9:10 am 
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To the O. P.: Nothing wrong with what you did. I get what you are saying, and have thought about that very thing. But that hasn't stopped me from hitting the untracked snow. Certainly when I'm skis, I don't hesitate. Very few do. Some skiers, in fact, would say that is the whole point (which means that areas like that will be chopped up very soon, no matter what you do). If anything, your track is perfect, as it allows skiers to go to either side (which is different than if it went back and forth).

As far as ski tracks and snowshoe tracks go, it is pretty simple. If you see ski tracks -- and only ski tracks -- then make a path next to it (whenever practical*). If you see snowshoe tracks, then feel free to follow them. It is quite possible (as mentioned) that the snowshoer started the tracks. Even if they didn't, the damage has been done. Furthermore, one snowshoe track (over a ski track) is actually worse than two (or twenty). A snowshoe track tends to be lumpy, while lots of snowshoes can smooth it out a bit. Not as smooth as if it was just ski tracks, but still better.

Artist Point is no exception. I was there the other day, and as is the case this early in the season, the road still appears as a road. As a means of getting up the hill, it works really well, especially if you have waxless skis. After using skins for much of they way, I took them off, and followed the road right up. While most skiers had big, fat skis, I did notice some very skinny ski tracks. The skier might have gone down a steeper route, but with much of the mellow terrain shopped up, the skier might have decided to just go down the road. This would have been a great choice, really, especially for a beginner. Having this be a ski only track (which it was, for a good section) made it both more enjoyable and easier for skiers who chose that option.

* Obviously there are situations where making a second track is simply impractical. Roads narrow, paths reach pinch points, etc.
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Cyclopath
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Cyclopath
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PostFri Dec 08, 2017 9:43 am 
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Bootpathguy wrote:
What say you?

Every weekend I get up earlier than I like and drive to Cabin Creek Sno-Park, to ski cross country.  This is the closest groomed trail skiing available to Seattle, except Hyak which is pretty much guaranteed to be full always.  Most weekends, there are a few snowshoers trudging up and down Amabilis Mountain.  I think this is slightly rude of them.  Snowshoers can do their thing pretty much anywhere.  There aren't many places to take skinny cross country skis.  The places there are, fill up quickly.  It would be polite not to unnecessarily use up this limited resource.  But, it's for everybody.

As to untracked snow, I agree it's beautiful and I appreciate your concern for others.  But I think you should be able to walk to wherever you like.  Everyone else will.
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Jim Dockery
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Jim Dockery
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PostFri Dec 08, 2017 10:59 am 
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Bootpathguy, as a photographer I understand your concern and often conserve pristine snow when I'm out skiing for my own photos, but don't expect others to do so for me.

On the subject of sharing tracks (which I've often posted about over the years). Many times a good snowshoe track works great for both skiers and shoers, except where the shoes go too steep. I certainly don't feel like I own the mountain, and rarely ask anyone else to not ruin the skin track. The exception over the years has been on Heather Ridge at Stevens pass where a good track gets established that many people (skiers & shoers) use over and over in a day. Years ago I encountered 3 snowboarders booting up it knee to thigh deep and totally destroying the track. I tried to educate them pointing out that while it may seem harder to plow a boot pack straight up the fresh snow the direct track would serve them better than the zig zag skin track if they wanted to make more than one run. "It's a free country and you don't own it!" was their basic reply. I was glad to pass them and make one last run that day. I heard from a friend who encountered them just before dark that they followed skier tracks down to the PCT then had a mile of flat thigh deep wallowing ruining that skin track back to the parking lot. I had to admire their incredibly hard work for a single run dizzy.gif

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BigBrunyon
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BigBrunyon
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PostFri Dec 08, 2017 4:07 pm 
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you get me out there, i'm gonna WALK WHERE I WANT!!! look, ain't no one stopping me! Anyone try to tell me don't ruin that prestine snow over there look i'll TELL EM OFF!! AnD RUIN THAT SNOW! BIG TIME

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i go to the FITNESS GYMS!!!
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boot up
Old Not Bold Hiker



Joined: 12 Dec 2006
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boot up
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PostFri Dec 08, 2017 6:56 pm 
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I am running into this predicament at the moment.   Lack of low elevation snow, all sno-parks below 6200 feet, don't have enough snow so everyone is concentrated into a relatively small area. This makes a Wild West of snowshoers, xc skiers, snowmobilers, dogs, xmas tree hunters, and booters at the one sno-park that has enough snow to use. 

I have been xc skiing and snowshoeing and photographing.  Its an interesting perspective.
I have been trying to educate people that its polite to not be tromping in defined ski tracks. Only to find my tracks from the way out are trashed by my return trip.  On the other hand, on snowshoes, I was careful to break trail the entire way out, off to the side of the XC tracks, only to find on the way back the xc ski folks had used my snowshoe tracks and I'll be damned if I was going to break trail again next to 3 sets of xc tracks.

Then there are the snowmobilers that are ignoring ALL of the signs designating some areas as off limits for snowmobiles and making a point of ripping up the designated no-motor corridor as apparently their first priority.   

I debated the issue of messing up "pristine" snow, but after seeing the snowmobile chaos....figured that was a non-issue.

Dutchman Flat snowshoe 12/07/17 with Panny G85
Dutchman Flat snowshoe 12/07/17 with Panny G85
Dutchman Flat snowshoe 12/07/17 with Panny G85
Dutchman Flat snowshoe 12/07/17 with Panny G85
Dutchman Flat snowshoe 12/07/17 with Panny G85
Dutchman Flat snowshoe 12/07/17 with Panny G85
young Ent with Christmas tree. Dutchman Flat snowshoe 12/07/17 with Panny G85
young Ent with Christmas tree. Dutchman Flat snowshoe 12/07/17 with Panny G85
Dutchman Flat snowshoe 12/07/17 with Panny G85
Dutchman Flat snowshoe 12/07/17 with Panny G85
Dutchman Flat snowshoe 12/07/17 with Panny G85
Dutchman Flat snowshoe 12/07/17 with Panny G85

We need more snow.  Its been a very dry December.

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friluftsliv
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