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Freeski
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PostTue Mar 13, 2018 8:42 am 
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Bedivere wrote:
I dont' know anything about any of this, nor do I much care, but your second sentence irks me.  you do not have rights to "free speech" in any privately owned medium, period.  That's not how the constitution works.  The sooner you accept this and figure out how to work within the restrictions it imposes on your self-expression the sooner you may find audiences to be more receptive to what you have to say.

this is what I said in my first post as a conclusion maybe you missed it.

"What is clear is that TAY is a commercial site with a goal of making a profit. So let's not confuse that site with free speech rights."

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'' what did you dream, it's alright we told we told you what to dream....so welcome to the machine'' David Gilmor (pink floyd)
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JonnyQuest
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PostTue Mar 13, 2018 9:19 am 
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Freeski wrote:
this is what I said in my first post as a conclusion

Saying that TAY is a "commercial site with a goal of making a profit" doesn't seem quite the same as Bedivere's clarification that TAY (and NWHikers for that matter) are private mediums (with posting guidelines) and hence you don't have rights to "free speech".   It sounds more like an attempted slam at TAY.  As you say in your first, and many, posts, you're big on "supporting facts".  So maybe you have evidence that TAY is out to make a profit.  But my guess is that they're just trying to (partly) cover hosting costs.
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Freeski
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PostTue Mar 13, 2018 9:54 am 
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Stefan-K wrote:
Freeski wrote:
"You're not ready for the truth"

: exactly

If you want to be heard (and you obviously do)--you have to come to the realization that how you say things is just as important as what you say; this is a truth you have chosen to ignore (for many years and MANY posts), and still do.

Freeski wrote:
Enjoy your vanilla site where you can freely stroke each other's ego and not address relevant public safety and public land issues. Keeping your head in the sand is a very comfortable place and I understand that.

You consistently insult a lot of people but then act victimized as soon as anyone talks back.
Over and over it seems only Chris Freeski can save America, can make it great again, can address the truth of public safety and land issues.

It's tiresome.

And it's too bad, because you have some good things to say.  It's just that people stop listening when you continually hit them over the head with your rants. When you hijack just about every thread you post in.

I was fully supportive when you brought up the heli LZ tree cutting issue a few years back. But you lost me along the way.

a website or a culture becomes "vanilla" when you ban all those with a divergent point of view point  and who are willing to express that point of view on any public format thread.

Sure I'll comment on a thread that paints a rosy picture of heli-skiing on pristine powder snow that resembles an advertisement and ignores or is unaware of the trash that is left as a result of that form of recreation or ignores or is unaware of the impact that form of recreation has on others.

So I mentioned that fact on a thread and was heavily flamed for it.

Keep in mind the most of my opinions are based on fact and yet facts are not used  to debate my point of view.

I am definitely not a victim so please don't try to put words in my mouth that I play the victim. I was simply banned from a website which has very little impact on my life.

That type of  straw man building was and still is a common forum debate tactic. The trouble is when you build a straw man, other people except that as fact and continue building that same straw man.

If you don't like the message that's one thing, but trying to kill the messenger is pointless.

I don't intend to play a game where I sugar coat everything so the pill is easier for anyone to swallow.

I am definitely not a self promoter and I'm fully aware that my style does not support my self interest.

The ideals of commercialism that place self-interest money gain, power and control of public land over the needs of Public Safety and health is the message.

Why should a helicopter-ski company be allowed control of so much public land that benefits the relative few people who can afford that type of recreation while passing public health and safety risks onto a greater number of human powered Backcountry skiers out for a day of peace, quiet and seeking solace in the wonders of nature?

I find it interesting and ironic that  the forest service approved a plan to heli- fly customers out to to a remote Hut so those customers can enjoy peace and quiet away from the impact that the rest of the heli-operation has along the Highway 20 corridor.

These are the realities that people do not want to hear. This is the point of view that was banned and erased from an entire website pretending to represent the views of Backcountry skiers.

The reality is that most Backcountry skiers do not participate in writing trip reports to self promote their own egos under some self-delusion that they are sharing.

Promoting ego can and does get people killed in the mountains.  Self-interest also forms bias that shapes people's debate tactics, and unfortunately those become internet slams.

These things I say are not intended to insult. They are intended to promote critical thinking and self-reflection aimed towards the goal of Public Safety and eliminating commercial conflicts and environmental impacts on critical mountain habitat environments.

I do not want commercial interests to control our public land. It hasn't worked out very well for the planet.

If you accept commercial helicopter use of our mountains why would you exclude a copper mine from Mazama? Or Drilling for oil in an Arctic Wildlife Refuge?

They are the same commercial high impact entity desiring control  of our public land, reaping monetary rewards for self-gain, subject to the same rules and mitigation measures  that allow such uses of our public land.

It's a bitter pill to swallow.

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'' what did you dream, it's alright we told we told you what to dream....so welcome to the machine'' David Gilmor (pink floyd)
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snoqpass
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PostTue Mar 13, 2018 10:24 am 
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Youíre not going to get any more sympathy here than at TAY, Iím hoping the mods here donít let you carry on with your act on this site
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Freeski
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PostTue Mar 13, 2018 10:32 am 
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snoqpass wrote:
Youíre not going to get any more sympathy here than at TAY, Iím hoping the mods here donít let you carry on with your act on this site

And above is an example of the Flaming that was typical from this fellow  at that site and now here.

Not looking for any type of sympathy. Just reporting on the realities of the internet, that you have so clearly demonstrated.

But yeah let's silence everyone in a country of free speech who does not agree with your point of view, right?

And here is one of my threads that was erased on TAY that was part of my "Act".

6000 views at the time of that archive and the few from the vocal mob gets their way.


Oh the horror.

https://web.archive.org/web/20170721032417/http://www.turns-all-year.com/skiing_snowboarding/trip_reports/index.php?topic=38438.0

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'' what did you dream, it's alright we told we told you what to dream....so welcome to the machine'' David Gilmor (pink floyd)
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fourteen410
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PostTue Mar 13, 2018 10:35 am 
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What is the point of this post, other than to rant?
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Freeski
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PostTue Mar 13, 2018 10:42 am 
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treeswarper wrote:
I thought this would be about a volunteer group cleaning an outhouse.  My bad. smile.gif

smile.gif

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'' what did you dream, it's alright we told we told you what to dream....so welcome to the machine'' David Gilmor (pink floyd)
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Stefan-K
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PostTue Mar 13, 2018 11:03 am 
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fourteen410 wrote:
What is the point of this post, other than to rant?

exactly

It's a one way street... an endless smattering of dysfunctional syllogisms. Like every other Chris Freeski thread this one is turning into a highway of one way logic... endless rationalizations of a bottomless ego... unorganized meanderings... extreme righteousness, all under the guise of ethics and do-good-ery.
How much good this is doing you can judge by the comments here... He fools nobody but himself.

It's like what Tom said in the first comment: TLDR.


I'm outta here, this is pointless
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Freeski
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PostTue Mar 13, 2018 11:18 am 
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fourteen410 wrote:
What is the point of this post, other than to rant?



"We are going
Heaven knows where we are going
We will know we're there
We will get there
Heaven knows how we will get there
We know we will
It will be hard we know
And the road will be muddy and rough
But we'll get there
Heaven knows how we will get there"

woyaya by Osibisa

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'' what did you dream, it's alright we told we told you what to dream....so welcome to the machine'' David Gilmor (pink floyd)
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Just_Some_Hiker
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PostTue Mar 13, 2018 11:30 am 
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If TAY is a commercial for-profit organization, where is all of their money going? Certainly not into the website. It looks like something I would have whipped together in Geocities back in the 90s.
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treeswarper
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PostTue Mar 13, 2018 11:49 am 
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Freeski:  Can you post on here when the highway is bikeable?  I am a bit hesitant to ride it due to avalanche danger, but maybe just before it is opened for the summer would be good.

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What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be humanĖĖanimals and aliens are great possibilities
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Freeski
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PostTue Mar 13, 2018 1:14 pm 
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treeswarper wrote:
Freeski:  Can you post on here when the highway is bikeable?  I am a bit hesitant to ride it due to avalanche danger, but maybe just before it is opened for the summer would be good.

Yes I will try to do that.

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'' what did you dream, it's alright we told we told you what to dream....so welcome to the machine'' David Gilmor (pink floyd)
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Freeski
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PostTue Mar 13, 2018 1:27 pm 
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Here is one of my threads that got deleted in the recent Divergent cleansing at TAY.

The second post details a point of view that was a pretty common occurrence.

The attacks and the childhood comments that were directed towards me where left up, while my threads discussing safety and conflict issues in my area between  commercial use and the human-powered backcountry skiers were often locked down.

This taken from the Wayback machine internet archive. The thread shows 20,000 views, but I'm guessing some of those are Bots doing what bots do.

https://web.archive.org/web/20170721020839/http://www.turns-all-year.com/skiing_snowboarding/trip_reports/index.php?topic=38070.0



"Posts: 105


Re: Clarify Post
ę Reply #1 on: 03/09/17, 09:52 AM Ľ
As a regular reader and occasional poster on TAY I find the fact that the new management has decided to silence your opinions on Heliskiing in your local area extremely disappointing. Nothing derogatory or inflammatory was posted yet they've decided to silence the discussion. Because...?

That they're allowing Billk's childish, personal attack to stand while stifling the discussion of an issue that directly affects skiers speaks volumes about their attitudes towards managing the conversation around here."

At the time right before the cleansing, I had enough of it.

One of my threads was locked down with the last comment being an insult by one of the moderators, the guy that started that Vendetta thing.

I asked the administrator to remove that insulting post and he did.

Still trying to figure it out. Could it have been the actions of a single moderator that caused such a thorough cleansing. Heat from  commercial interest in public land? Threatened lawsuits?

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'' what did you dream, it's alright we told we told you what to dream....so welcome to the machine'' David Gilmor (pink floyd)
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HitTheTrail
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PostTue Mar 13, 2018 2:44 pm 
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Just_Some_Hiker wrote:
If TAY is a commercial for-profit organization, where is all of their money going? Certainly not into the website. It looks like something I would have whipped together in Geocities back in the 90s.

I am relieved to hear I am not the only one who thought that about the TAY site!
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joker
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PostTue Mar 13, 2018 4:08 pm 
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In a stint as moderator on the site, I was not aware of these profits you  write of!  lol.gif

I was, however, aware of a fair bit of time wasted by having to tap a generous local attorney who provides pro bone assistance to the  site due to some things like undocumented allegations that could  be construed as libel, which were kind of frustrating for folks who  volunteer time to help  maintain a community  resource  to have to deal  with. I  can  imagine why "new management" might have taken  a different  tack toward handling such problems...
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