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WaState
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PostThu Mar 29, 2018 2:29 pm 
I recently picked up a SOL poncho at about 2.7 oz and added to it a mini bic lighter and couple of micro tinders. http://www.trailspace.com/gear/sol/survival-poncho/ One can use a candle with it or build a fire. I tried a candle once in a tent in winter, for me I detected little added heat in a tent, so I prefer a fire. To overnight sit with the back to a tree sitting on insulating material of some kind. If can build a fire out front and raise front of poncho with sticks etc to let heat inside. Can't feel it in the pocket when running. To repack fold it to the needed width then tightly roll it up, place roll sideways in stuff sack.

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Eric Hansen
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PostThu Mar 29, 2018 5:47 pm 
fwiw, I gear tested a space blanket bivy 20 years back for a magazine I'll leave unnamed. Also tested a plastic model, similar. Space blanket bivy was 36" x 84", 3 oz., size of a small fist or an inch thick deck of cards. MPI brand. Bivy was essentially a vbl. In temps roughly 50/45 degrees I'd get 5 or so hours sleep before waking up cold, need to do some situps or jumping jacks. That was wearing poly/pile clothes I'd typically have in a daypack and perched on a small thin pad. Colder temps brought quicker wake ups. Many different ways of looking at the results but my take was that 5 hours of sleep was a godsend when you are SOL.

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WaState
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PostThu Mar 29, 2018 8:06 pm 
If one can get a fire going and have wood for a night then would be fairly comfortable. Without a fire then pretty miserable, but much more likely to be alive after a night out with the poncho.. I can feel the reflected heat from the poncho, construction seems better than the cheaper mylar stuff. Can't expect that much from a few ozs. Bivvy verses poncho or both??? While being running light.

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Randito
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PostThu Mar 29, 2018 9:30 pm 
Reccomend you try out any proposed gear in "your backyard" or similar low commitment circumstances before depending on it. In terms of kindling a fire, practice, practice, practice. It's easy to kindle fire under warm, dry summer conditions, but those are unlikely to be the conditions where you'll need a fire stay warm.

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HitTheTrail
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PostFri Mar 30, 2018 7:53 am 
If you don’t like “cheap and tacky” when it comes to safety gear (like I don’t) you can always get the Cadillac version from Western Mountaineering. They are calling it a VBL but it is just a high end heat reflecting safety bivy. It weighs 4.5 oz and is WAY more expensive but it can be used as a quality VBL for winter treks and you will have the peace of mind knowing it is not a $10 SOL if you happened to get caught out overnight on a trail run.

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WaState
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PostFri Mar 30, 2018 8:28 am 
Nice Western Mountaineering VBL it is always a question of what to bring and I did not know about that option. On mountaineering trips I carry more weight for emergency bivvy in my backpack. But lately I have read about the concept of having a small emergency bivvy or poncho etc up inside the liner of the climbing helmet if for when you leave the backpack behind. I know SOL products are cheapish also are the blizzard bag gear but I think they function fairly well, they actually do a decent job and hold up farily well over intended usage. I have a friend who has the mid range costing SOL escape bivvy (breathable) that he had used as an in camp bivvy sack for a few years. I have the SOL pro escape bivvy (not Cheap) which is breathable and 8oz, it is a great bivvy for summer usage. The emergency survival stuff is something I enjoy thinking about and working on at times. I prefer a good fire over most everything else if possible. It would be a difficult problem to get a fire going with only a mini bic and a couple micro pieces of tinder, during the rainy season in the PNW. I don't think I can solve that problem most times myself. Many times your in a logged forest, in younger green stuff, and it gets harder the higher you go up. During dry summer it is relativity easy to get a fire going. In my mountaineering pack framework I have a 10 inch pruning saw blade slipped inside with electrical tape for a handle, much better chance with that to work the wood. There are a few options for a bivvy sack that are fairly light for running etc. Will think of this. For me this problem is not that serious for the moment as I have cell reception where I run now in winter even though I am some miles out in the woods. So the poncho seems most reasonable as I can throw it on if I get cold while moving but can use to hunker down if needed, if I get lost or break ankle and phone dies etc.

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HitTheTrail
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PostFri Mar 30, 2018 8:48 am 
WaState wrote:
I know SOL products are cheapish
I have always thought it a bit ironic that they would pick a name that most of the western world takes to mean "Sh## Outta Luck".

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DIYSteve
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PostFri Mar 30, 2018 9:05 am 
That WM VBL is nice, although it would be much more usable with a half zip on one side. That would be an easy DIY mod. Better yet, I'd like to get some of the fabric and make my own VBL.

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DigitalJanitor
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PostFri Mar 30, 2018 10:25 am 
We practice building fires quite a bit with our daughter while we're out, particularly in crummy conditions. Highly educational, highly recommended. Tip: gather at least twice the tinder and fuel you need before you get started, because that amount will probably be right. I've wound up carrying in my 'survival kit' a lighter and a handful of solid fuel tabs along with some dryer lint in a ziplock bag... the dryer lint should be able to get things going quickly but the fuel tabs will hopefully give me more time which can be critical if everything is cold and wet. When I'm out skiing I actually toss in an Esbit stove kit as getting a fire going becomes ever more dodgy, and the benefits of at least getting hot water into the system becomes increasingly critical as the temps go down. I also carry an SOL bivvy + a handful of chemical warmers to chuck in there and hope I never need any of it. My complete survival kit that rides in the camelback on every MTB ride is vastly more substantial than the average person carries though. I've also got first aid bits, extra clothes, 2-3 tubes of Hammer Perpetuem tabs, chemical water treatment tabs, and a bunch of other stuff in a little waterproof stuff sack. I'm notorious for packing a crap ton of bike related tools, lights, etc as well. Overkill? I sure hope so! Dudes make fun of me regularly, but it seems like if I ride with 'em long enough they all wind up having to dig something out of my pile. suuure.gif

~Mom jeans on wheels
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Chief Joseph
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PostSat Mar 31, 2018 8:37 pm 
As most here likely know, cedar kindling or bark is the best natural source for a fire starter, well, sap might be better, and will still burn when wet.

Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
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cdestroyer
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PostSun Apr 01, 2018 7:13 am 
As the same above. in my younger days weight didnt mean much. I often packed more than was probably needed. I used to think that a magnesium firestarter was kewl until after getting soaked in a storm, cold, shivering and trying to scrape enough material to ignite I made some changes. I found an old stump full of dried pitch and cut out a chunck which I cut into smaller pieces and wrapped in foil. I also found that gas lighters sometimes fail in higher altitudes and cold temps, so I carried the old trusty zippo lighter, which if properly filled will last several days of lighting fires. I also carried that foil space blanket, but dont exhale wrapped inside or you will end up wet from the condensation from your breathe(learned experience). Something to burn while sitting on a rocky peak in a storm will be a challenge!

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Malachai Constant
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PostSun Apr 01, 2018 11:42 am 
Birch bark rare Burns like turpentine In driving rain

"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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WaState
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PostSun Apr 01, 2018 11:48 am 
After going checking most everything else I found that the lowly mini bic lighter is probably the best fire ignition source to have and keep stored in gear with maybe a few good quality trail matches for back up. Every year or two change out all your bics. While a good fire is the single best option for an emergency night out, it is a question of getting one going with enough wood for a night. Around the pnw, above 5000 feet fire gets much harder to impossible, more so when higher up in wet weather and or in deep snow, even in the low lands fire is hard in wet weather---without the sawing/splitting tools. Lately I have discovered the blizzard bag and think that would be great on day trips, but no experience in one yet during a rough overnight. I tarp camp with a SOL bivvy sack so I can carry that sack above camp on overnight trips. A particular dangerous situation is trail running in wet winter conditions and must be lightweight. However most people don't stray that far in back country in bad weather and fire is much easier in dry weather and if not high up. It is much better to have a partner as he or she can gather the wood and make fire while the other one is stove up with a broken limb!!! When hiking for weight I particularly like the blizzard tube and a light tarp for two people. A four man bothy bag is pretty good for winter hiking day trips etc. I think the 2 man bothy bag is a little small, but also will work. I guess if I was far out there trail running in winter I may opt for the active light blizzard bag, Or a nice size candle and some fire starter with the SOL poncho, or some other poncho. Hikers and runners get the chop all the time when caught out without enough gear. Of course such stats are across a huge number of people being outdoors. I know of someone (not old) (mid fall season) who fell off a rock and broke their pelvis bone, a freak accident and being alone and not far from the trail. Didn't make it, froze to death. I am surprised to know that broken pelvis bone accidents are not that extremely rare for younger people as I know of three people it happened too. As I understand it, one can't move at all with a broken pelvis..... I carry an inreach signal device when hiking, worth every oz and penny if you or someone else really needs it. If going out far on a run I would suffer it's 7ozs. Keeping in mind rescue can be a very long time coming and could freeze in that amount of time.

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