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Malachai Constant
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PostTue Jul 10, 2018 12:22 pm 
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Now arson on federal land is OK, do you think the kid that started the Gorge fire will be next? huh.gif

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Grannyhiker
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PostTue Jul 10, 2018 6:24 pm 
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I'd like to reply to this but it would be a savage comment on current politics,not allowed here for very good reason.

As for the folks pardoned, it seems there were a lot of law violations committed in addition to letting fires get away.  Only the arson was prosecuted.

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Ski
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PostTue Jul 10, 2018 7:04 pm 
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Making Arsonists Great Again

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RodF
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PostTue Jul 10, 2018 7:45 pm 
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In fairness, the Hammonds are not the Bundys and did not support the occupation of Malheur NWR.  The evidence presented at trial, lacking the necessary element of proof of intent, was not so clear-cut as readers may assume.  They did not pull a gun on anyone.  U.S. District Judge Michael Robert Hogan independently decided that sentences of 5 years "would shock the conscience" and would violate the constitutional prohibition on cruel and unusual punishment. They served their time and completed their original sentences, but then were re-sentenced to a full 5 years.  This was effectively double-jeopardy.  Readers should read more at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hammond_arson_case

Their case was so unusual that it merited review.  I am absolutely no fan of Trump or the Bundys.  I do not think Trump should've pardoned the Hammonds.  But Judge Hogan ruled the Hammonds should have received some measure of clemency and should've been released 3 years ago.

If we wish Trump would not make knee-jerk reactions that needlessly polarize our country, but adhere to the facts and respect the constitution and our courts, we should start by first doing so ourselves.  We can and must do better.

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"of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt" - John Muir
"the wild is not the opposite of cultivated.  It is the opposite of the captivated” - Vandana Shiva
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MtnGoat
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PostWed Jul 11, 2018 9:28 am 
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Wow, a reasonable post that doesn't use the Hammonds as stand in pinatas for frustrations over certain political figures. Very well done

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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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Kascadia
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PostWed Jul 11, 2018 2:09 pm 
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RodF wrote:
I do not think Trump should've pardoned the Hammonds

Lest there be any confusion.  I assume you mean Trump should not have stuck his finger in here, but not sure.  I'm cynical enough to think that Trump is thinking midterm here and this is an appeal to his base.


You say, "But Judge Hogan", but do not go on to say, "But Judge Aiken".  Just saying.
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DIYSteve
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PostWed Jul 11, 2018 3:19 pm 
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Kascadia wrote:
PARDONED

Well, so much for the rule of law
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Kascadia
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PostThu Jul 12, 2018 10:17 am 
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It's who you know. . .

This one is Pence/Lucas Oil (Forrest Lucas, ironically enough)/Lucas was also being considered for Secretary of Interior at one point

And by the way, glad to see you back and kicking (already!). . .

ETA:  Picked up by the NYT today.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/12/us/forrest-lucas-mike-pence-hammond-pardons.html
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RodF
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PostThu Jul 12, 2018 12:56 pm 
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Kascadia wrote:
RodF wrote:
I do not think Trump should've pardoned the Hammonds

Lest there be any confusion.  I assume you mean Trump should not have stuck his finger in here, but not sure.  I'm cynical enough to think that Trump is thinking midterm here and this is an appeal to his base.


You say, "But Judge Hogan", but do not go on to say, "But Judge Aiken".  Just saying.

You're right to point out the re-sentencing was to the mandatory minimums imposed by statute after 9/11.  Maybe, just maybe, the so-called "Patriot Act" may have been a a poorly thought out over-reaction?  It's created quite an extensive intelligence state...

Presidents have the power to grant "reprieves or pardons".  A reprieve (commutation of the remaining 2 years of the sentence) would've left the conviction intact, which a pardon does not.

Whether the Hammonds, or Richard Nixon, or who knows who's next but it's not likely to be Snowden under this president, should receive either... well, this isn't a political forum so I will say no more except that I share your cynicism.  It is realism.

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"of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt" - John Muir
"the wild is not the opposite of cultivated.  It is the opposite of the captivated” - Vandana Shiva
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Byeguys
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PostFri Jul 13, 2018 6:58 am 
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RodF wrote:
well, this isn't a political forum so I will say no more except that I share your cynicism.  It is realism.

The longer we deny the reality of the current political climate, the sooner it will be too late to discuss it. Probably missed our chance to effect change with simple talking 20-30 years ago, but it can't hurt now. Recommend we temporarily adjust the politics rules here or make some concession in Stewardship.
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Ski
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PostFri Jul 13, 2018 7:18 am 
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"Stewardship" is all about politics. Always has been.

This fiasco isn't about resource management, though - it really kind of just skirts the edge of the "stewardship" world.

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I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Byeguys
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PostFri Jul 13, 2018 7:40 am 
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Ski wrote:
"Stewardship" is all about politics.

Threads in the past have been shut down for leaving the hiking narrative, as Tom specifies in the Stewardship sticky.
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Kascadia
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PostFri Jul 13, 2018 10:34 am 
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"The Sagebrush Rebellion was a movement during the 1970s and 1980s that sought major changes to federal land control, use and disposal policy in the American West where, in 13 western states, federal land holdings include between 20% and 85% of a state's area."
(Wiki)
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RodF
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PostFri Jul 13, 2018 2:00 pm 
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Doppelganger wrote:
Threads in the past have been shut down for leaving the hiking narrative, as Tom specifies in the Stewardship sticky.

Right.  To bring it back, this is along the route of the Oregon Desert Trail, which traverses some of the most spectacular natural areas of the state’s dry side, including Hart Mountain National Antelope Refuge, Steens Mountain, and the Owyhee Canyonlands.   biggrin.gif

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"of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt" - John Muir
"the wild is not the opposite of cultivated.  It is the opposite of the captivated” - Vandana Shiva
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Klapton
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PostFri Jul 13, 2018 9:40 pm 
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RodF wrote:
Maybe, just maybe, the so-called "Patriot Act" may have been a a poorly thought out over-reaction?  It's created quite an extensive intelligence state...

Patriot Act was written during the 90s during the Clinton years.  It never saw the light of day when it was written.  It was signed into law within two months after 9/11/2001.
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