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bobbi
stillaGUAMish



Joined: 13 Jul 2006
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Location: olympics!
bobbi
stillaGUAMish
PostWed Jul 11, 2018 10:02 pm 
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Hesman wrote:
that perhaps the volunteer I encountered did not get all the required training.

then why the heck did the person become a volunteer if he/she did not get all the required training!  ssshhheeessshhh

I believe your pass is good for 4 adults.  check NPS website.

next time, go straight to the kiosk, fill the little blue envelope, tear your part off and keep it safe, place envelope in box.

get your cell phone ready in video mode, tell the volunteer you are going to record any conversation if you feel you are once again being harassed.

the sun is out, I'm getting browner, ha ha tongue.gif

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bobbi ૐ

"Today is your day!  Your mountain is waiting.  So…get on your way!" - Oh, the Places You’ll Go! By Dr. Seuss
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Bedivere
Why Do Witches Burn?



Joined: 25 Jul 2008
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Bedivere
Why Do Witches Burn?
PostWed Jul 11, 2018 11:49 pm 
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I can't understand walking away.  I'd have told him to get stuffed and continued on my way.  Let him do whatever he thinks he has to, it's going to be on him when it turns out you were completely in the right.

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moonspots
Happy Curmudgeon



Joined: 03 Feb 2007
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Location: North Dakota
moonspots
Happy Curmudgeon
PostThu Jul 12, 2018 6:21 am 
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Bedivere wrote:
I can't understand walking away.  I'd have told him to get stuffed and continued on my way.  Let him do whatever he thinks he has to, it's going to be on him when it turns out you were completely in the right.

That's how I see it, and I think that's how I would have handled it. No excuse for his actions, and he (they?) need to be called on it. I think I'll take a trip up there just to "see for myself".

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"Out, OUT you demons of Stupidity"! - St Dogbert, patron Saint of Technology
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moonspots
Happy Curmudgeon



Joined: 03 Feb 2007
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Location: North Dakota
moonspots
Happy Curmudgeon
PostThu Jul 12, 2018 6:32 am 
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Hesman wrote:
Contacted the appropriate person at Dungeness NWR today and passed along what happened.

I'm glad you did, at least he and others now know, or have been reminded that his "Deputy Fife" response isn't correct and won't be tolerated. Truthfully, regardless of whether he was a volunteer or employee, I think job termination should be seriously considered.

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"Out, OUT you demons of Stupidity"! - St Dogbert, patron Saint of Technology
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Hesman
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Joined: 24 Oct 2005
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Hesman
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PostThu Jul 12, 2018 8:07 am 
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Bedivere wrote:
I can't understand walking away.  I'd have told him to get stuffed and continued on my way.  Let him do whatever he thinks he has to, it's going to be on him when it turns out you were completely in the right.

I told a law enforcement friend about what happened and they said that walking away was probably a good decision on my part for this particular situation because it sounded to them that it was escalating.

Also, my law enforcement friend told me that the volunteer should have never threatened me with arrest and prison time since the volunteer is not an officer of the law. She said as a law enforcement officer, she would have found other ways to diffuse the situation. She said that a verbal/written warning or a ticket would have been a better alternative before telling someone they would be arrested. She said that telling someone they would be arrested would be one of the last things she would decide to do.

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You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time. - Abraham Lincoln
Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened. - Dr. Seuss
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cambajamba
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cambajamba
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PostThu Jul 12, 2018 9:09 am 
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Schenk wrote:
It doesn't do any good the be in the right, dead right.

Bingo!
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cambajamba
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cambajamba
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PostThu Jul 12, 2018 9:10 am 
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Hesman wrote:
walking away was probably a good decision on my part for this particular situation because it sounded to them that it was escalating

Another bingo!
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Doppelganger
Armchairing



Joined: 09 Feb 2006
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Doppelganger
Armchairing
PostThu Jul 12, 2018 10:23 am 
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Hesman wrote:
I told a law enforcement friend about what happened and they said that walking away was probably a good decision on my part for this particular situation because it sounded to them that it was escalating.

I'm hoping it was just a cranky old man who is unsatisfied with the current state of Washington recreation but doesn't know how to rectify things. Here's hoping some talks with his boss or the next few people who stop by the kiosk will impart the information he needs to stay happy as a volunteer and keep sending happy people along to the Spit.
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boot up
Old Not Bold Hiker



Joined: 12 Dec 2006
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Location: Bend Oregon
boot up
Old Not Bold Hiker
PostThu Jul 12, 2018 11:09 am 
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I ran into this at a "national park" in the Sedona AZ area.

Apparently when the govt hands our parks over to a concessionaire, they can charge whatever they want and ignore the National Park pass. 

I pulled up to the booth to get in, noticed the sign over the guys head said my pass was sufficient, and he insisted I had to pay in addition to the pass, and was aggressive and basically an A-hole in his attitude.  I tried to politely point out the "misunderstanding", and the sign, and his response was to walk away, with the gate locked, and disappeared for 20 minutes, claiming parking was full, even though I could see a number of open parking spots.  After a long smoke break, where I could see him, he came back and asked for money again.

I ended up paying, but that left me with bad feelings about the place for the rest of the day.

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friluftsliv
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RandyHiker
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Joined: 27 Jul 2008
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RandyHiker
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PostThu Jul 12, 2018 12:14 pm 
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The America the Beautiful pass website provides this PDF list of sites where it is honored.

https://store.usgs.gov/s3fs-public/PassIssuanceList.pdf

Dungeness is listed:

Quote:
Washington Maritime NWRC (Dungeness NWR)360-457-8451SequimWA https://www.fws.gov/refuge/dungeness/

But "never attribute to malice, that which is easily explained by incompetence"

In the FAQ section there is this:

Quote:
What is NOT covered by the Annual Pass?
The Annual Pass does not cover Expanded Amenity fees such as camping, boat launching, parking, special tours, special permits or ferries.

Also, some facilities and activities on Federal recreation lands (including those mentioned above) are managed by private concessionaires. The concessionaires charge for their services as any private company does and the Pass is not valid for their services

So I wonder if "parking" is considered an "expanded amenity" by this volunteer.  Seems messed up.
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boot up
Old Not Bold Hiker



Joined: 12 Dec 2006
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Location: Bend Oregon
boot up
Old Not Bold Hiker
PostThu Jul 12, 2018 12:37 pm 
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RandyHiker wrote:
The America the Beautiful pass website provides this PDF list of sites where it is honored.

https://store.usgs.gov/s3fs-public/PassIssuanceList.pdf

Interesting what happens when we hand over public land to a private concession.

I had both the America the Beautiful pass and the Red Rock pass when I visited West Fork trail near Sedona AZ.  BOTH of those should cover that area in the Coconino National Forest. And even the sign on the entrance booth said so.

What it really boils down to is the private concession folks can do whatever they please.  Welcome to the future of hiking, if we continue to privatize public lands.

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friluftsliv
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RodF
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RodF
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PostThu Jul 12, 2018 12:52 pm 
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Hesman wrote:
I decided to go to Dungeness Spit for a walk on the beach. I only made it as far as the entrance station. I show my valid America the Beautiful Pass and am told by the volunteer that I cannot proceed.  I am told I would be arrested and face 6 months in federal prison...

I was a Dungeness Spit yesterday, and stopped by Refuge HQ to inquire about your encounter, Hes.  Volunteer coordinator Dave was already fully aware of it, and very sincerely apologetic.  Refuge manager Stephanie also came up to say she's spoken to you on the phone yesterday morning.  Both agree this should never have happened.  All their volunteers are given a full hour of training on the various passes.  The American the Beautiful Pass and and list of others that are accepted are all depicted in the pay kiosk for convenient reference by both visitors and volunteers.

Dungeness NWR manager Stephanie and volunteer coordinator Dave are both very sorry this occurred.  They'll talk to all volunteers and make every effort to ensure it never happens again.

Volunteers are there to make your visit more pleasant and informative, to help visitors.  This popular refuge with so many visitors simply doesn't have the funding and staffing to function without them.

(Sometimes, visitors may be confused about the bewildering array of passes we have to get.  The state Discover Pass, the forest service NW Forest Pass, or annual Olympic NP pass do not include access to US Fish and Wildlife Service sites, such as a Dungeness National Wildlife Refuge.  But some visitors present them, assuming they should.  Even volunteers can be confused, but they should never be confrontational or act like law enforcement officers!)

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"of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt" - John Muir
"the wild is not the opposite of cultivated.  It is the opposite of the captivated” - Vandana Shiva
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Doppelganger
Armchairing



Joined: 09 Feb 2006
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Doppelganger
Armchairing
PostThu Jul 12, 2018 1:55 pm 
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RodF wrote:
Even volunteers can be confused, but they should never be confrontational or act like law enforcement officers!

I took some time to consider the problems we have had in this forum over the last decade or so trying to figure out which of the steadily increasing number of permits would be applicable to the various trips we've planned.

Now picture yourself at 70, staying patient while dealing with a largely impatient public, maybe a curmudgeon (me), and you gotta keep up with all of the sticky intricacies of the permit web.

My first reaction was indignation. Thinking second chance. Fool me once.
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AlpineRose
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AlpineRose
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PostThu Jul 12, 2018 2:35 pm 
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Someone in their 70s could also be in the early stages of dementia.
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RandyHiker
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RandyHiker
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PostThu Jul 12, 2018 2:41 pm 
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FWIW: I've volunteered at MRNP, I didn't get a lot of training, but I was certainly emphases that I was to be informative and not confrontational.  If there were any serious, to move away and call for a LEO on the radio.
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