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cambajamba Member
Joined: 05 Nov 2011 Posts: 339 | TRs | Pics
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Just so we're clear, are you saying that either I'm a poor backcountry user, or falsifying my testimony?
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coldrain108 Thundering Herd
Joined: 05 Aug 2010 Posts: 1858 | TRs | Pics Location: somewhere over the rainbow |
cambajamba wrote: | Just so we're clear, are you saying that either I'm a poor backcountry user, or falsifying my testimony? |
Just a different experience.
I'm from the evil empire of Seattle.
The "obviously neccessary" statement was not targeted at you, I don't know your practices and neither do they. But I have seen some aweful stuff done out there and am 100% behind giving everyone a stern lecture about being a responsible visitor to that extremely popular area.
If you resent law enforcement types they can sense it. And this coming from a Grateful Dead touring hippy freak.
30 years of hiking in the ONP and only once did a ranger give us a hard time, when my LEO abrasive brother-in-law tried to sneak his dog onto the trails.
Since I have no expectations of forgiveness, I don't do it in the first place. That loop hole needs to be closed to everyone.
Since I have no expectations of forgiveness, I don't do it in the first place. That loop hole needs to be closed to everyone.
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Schenk Off Leash Man
Joined: 16 Apr 2012 Posts: 2372 | TRs | Pics Location: Traveling, with the bear, to the other side of the Mountain |
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Schenk
Off Leash Man
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Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:49 am
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When you know for a fact you are in the right, go ahead and challenge the so called "enforcer" to contact authorities and to ask them to come out and make an arrest.
The "enforcer" will either back down, or be corrected and/or reprimanded.
Just make sure you're right...
I have used this tactic in Montana when I was was being harassed by a nearby landowner, but I was in full compliance of the Montana Stream law.
It worked...land owner reprimanded, I kept fishing with the Sheriff's blessing.
Nature exists with a stark indifference to humans' situation.
Nature exists with a stark indifference to humans' situation.
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cambajamba Member
Joined: 05 Nov 2011 Posts: 339 | TRs | Pics
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Schenk wrote: | The "enforcer" will either back down, or be corrected and/or reprimanded. |
Maybe don't try this if you're...uh....darker than most.
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hbb Member
Joined: 06 Aug 2009 Posts: 405 | TRs | Pics
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hbb
Member
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Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:07 pm
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The payment envelopes in the little kiosk by the entrance have a box you can check indicating that you have the Interagency Annual Pass (aka America the Beautiful Pass). It's been that way for as long as I can remember; I've been there several times a year for at least the past 15 years.
I was just there two weeks ago, and filled out the little envelope and dropped it in the box, and passed the gauntlet of volunteers without incident.
You should definitely contact the regional office and voice your concerns.
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Schenk Off Leash Man
Joined: 16 Apr 2012 Posts: 2372 | TRs | Pics Location: Traveling, with the bear, to the other side of the Mountain |
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Schenk
Off Leash Man
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Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:15 pm
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cambajamba wrote: | Maybe don't try this if you're...uh....darker than most. |
Yes, in view of some recent events, one must be aware of the situation, and the potential direction it could go.
In one case, those men at Starbucks became catalysts for some good change.
However, running from the police when they show up is not a good plan if you are in the right (or otherwise!). Those men were correct and stood their ground and waited for the police to show up then did not resist. The outcome was much better than if they did something like run, disobey lawful commands, etc.
Maybe it is good to stand up to false authority as long as the false authority isn't packing heat.
It doesn't do any good the be in the right, dead right.
Nature exists with a stark indifference to humans' situation.
Nature exists with a stark indifference to humans' situation.
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RumiDude Marmota olympus
Joined: 26 Jul 2009 Posts: 3589 | TRs | Pics Location: Port Angeles |
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RumiDude
Marmota olympus
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Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:39 pm
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Many time the volunteers have radios. At that time of the morning you could have asked them to radio in to HQ so to speak and get confirmation about your America the Beautiful Annual Pass being valid.
Another alternative is to use your phone to get to the website. I am not sure if there is reception out there so this may not work, but you could try it.
Regardless I always recommend being polite and calm. It just helps. But I also recommend being insistent. That means asking for names and such. Using your cell phone video recording to assist, get a record of them telling you their names and telling you that your pass is not enough. That demonstrates you are serious and that you are not going to take this passively. (Sometimes people with badges or uniforms can get all "officially" because it "goes to their head", even volunteers.
The one thing I am not clear on is does the pass cover everyone in your group or just the pass holder/s out on the Dungeness Spit? I am not sure, but several years ago I used it for both me and my friend to go out onto the Spit.
Rumi
"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
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bobbi stillaGUAMish
Joined: 13 Jul 2006 Posts: 8012 | TRs | Pics Location: olympics! |
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bobbi
stillaGUAMish
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Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:02 pm
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Hesman wrote: | that perhaps the volunteer I encountered did not get all the required training. |
then why the heck did the person become a volunteer if he/she did not get all the required training! ssshhheeessshhh
I believe your pass is good for 4 adults. check NPS website.
next time, go straight to the kiosk, fill the little blue envelope, tear your part off and keep it safe, place envelope in box.
get your cell phone ready in video mode, tell the volunteer you are going to record any conversation if you feel you are once again being harassed.
the sun is out, I'm getting browner, ha ha
bobbi ૐ
"Today is your day! Your mountain is waiting. So…get on your way!" - Oh, the Places You’ll Go! By Dr. Seuss
bobbi ૐ
"Today is your day! Your mountain is waiting. So…get on your way!" - Oh, the Places You’ll Go! By Dr. Seuss
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Bedivere Why Do Witches Burn?
Joined: 25 Jul 2008 Posts: 7464 | TRs | Pics Location: The Hermitage |
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Bedivere
Why Do Witches Burn?
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Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:49 pm
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I can't understand walking away. I'd have told him to get stuffed and continued on my way. Let him do whatever he thinks he has to, it's going to be on him when it turns out you were completely in the right.
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moonspots Happy Curmudgeon
Joined: 03 Feb 2007 Posts: 2456 | TRs | Pics Location: North Dakota |
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moonspots
Happy Curmudgeon
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Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:21 am
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Bedivere wrote: | I can't understand walking away. I'd have told him to get stuffed and continued on my way. Let him do whatever he thinks he has to, it's going to be on him when it turns out you were completely in the right. |
That's how I see it, and I think that's how I would have handled it. No excuse for his actions, and he (they?) need to be called on it. I think I'll take a trip up there just to "see for myself".
"Out, OUT you demons of Stupidity"! - St Dogbert, patron Saint of Technology
"Out, OUT you demons of Stupidity"! - St Dogbert, patron Saint of Technology
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moonspots Happy Curmudgeon
Joined: 03 Feb 2007 Posts: 2456 | TRs | Pics Location: North Dakota |
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moonspots
Happy Curmudgeon
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Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:32 am
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Hesman wrote: | Contacted the appropriate person at Dungeness NWR today and passed along what happened. |
I'm glad you did, at least he and others now know, or have been reminded that his "Deputy Fife" response isn't correct and won't be tolerated. Truthfully, regardless of whether he was a volunteer or employee, I think job termination should be seriously considered.
"Out, OUT you demons of Stupidity"! - St Dogbert, patron Saint of Technology
"Out, OUT you demons of Stupidity"! - St Dogbert, patron Saint of Technology
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cambajamba Member
Joined: 05 Nov 2011 Posts: 339 | TRs | Pics
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Schenk wrote: | It doesn't do any good the be in the right, dead right. |
Bingo!
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cambajamba Member
Joined: 05 Nov 2011 Posts: 339 | TRs | Pics
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Hesman wrote: | walking away was probably a good decision on my part for this particular situation because it sounded to them that it was escalating |
Another bingo!
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boot up Old Not Bold Hiker
Joined: 12 Dec 2006 Posts: 4745 | TRs | Pics Location: Bend Oregon |
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boot up
Old Not Bold Hiker
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Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:09 am
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I ran into this at a "national park" in the Sedona AZ area.
Apparently when the govt hands our parks over to a concessionaire, they can charge whatever they want and ignore the National Park pass.
I pulled up to the booth to get in, noticed the sign over the guys head said my pass was sufficient, and he insisted I had to pay in addition to the pass, and was aggressive and basically an A-hole in his attitude. I tried to politely point out the "misunderstanding", and the sign, and his response was to walk away, with the gate locked, and disappeared for 20 minutes, claiming parking was full, even though I could see a number of open parking spots. After a long smoke break, where I could see him, he came back and asked for money again.
I ended up paying, but that left me with bad feelings about the place for the rest of the day.
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Randito Snarky Member
Joined: 27 Jul 2008 Posts: 9512 | TRs | Pics Location: Bellevue at the moment. |
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Randito
Snarky Member
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Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:14 pm
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The America the Beautiful pass website provides this PDF list of sites where it is honored.
https://store.usgs.gov/s3fs-public/PassIssuanceList.pdf
Dungeness is listed:
But "never attribute to malice, that which is easily explained by incompetence"
In the FAQ section there is this:
Quote: | What is NOT covered by the Annual Pass?
The Annual Pass does not cover Expanded Amenity fees such as camping, boat launching, parking, special tours, special permits or ferries.
Also, some facilities and activities on Federal recreation lands (including those mentioned above) are managed by private concessionaires. The concessionaires charge for their services as any private company does and the Pass is not valid for their services |
So I wonder if "parking" is considered an "expanded amenity" by this volunteer. Seems messed up.
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