Forum Index > Stewardship > Wolves cause researcher to climb tree in Okanogan Co. - Heli sent in for rescue
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RandyHiker
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RandyHiker
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PostTue Jul 17, 2018 3:52 pm 
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Ski wrote:
RandyHiker wrote:
You were the one asserting a narrative that wolves in Washington have an "unlimited" food supply from cattle that they don't have elsewhere.

No, that's not what I said at all, but thanks for playing.


Sorry I must have been confused by the plain meaning of this text.

Ski wrote:
Wild ungulate populations (and populations of other wild game species) combined with domestic livestock production in Washington State would provide an unlimited supply of prey.
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Ski
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PostTue Jul 17, 2018 3:55 pm 
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Sorry, I cannot help you with reading comprehension skills.
If you have issues with the numbers I cited above, contact the webmaster at that website above.

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Ski
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PostTue Jul 17, 2018 4:10 pm 
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harrymalamute wrote:
"What your graph doesn't show is that during the same time period Idaho went from 38 wolves to over 600 and an ecosystem that can only sustain about 300. where do you think..."

Don't know about Idaho, but the wolf population here in Washington State increased at a significantly faster rate than any of the wildlife management agencies had originally anticipated, and their original management strategies proved to be not up to the task (and are currently still being modified as both WDFW and USFWS muddle their way through what appears to be a long learning curve.)

Harry:
Just between you and me and the wall, I believe that this recent incident was over-played by the media. This is not to diminish in any way the potential threat, but (as has been pointed out innumerable times on this website here and other threads) the statistical data shows that wolf/human interactions are limited to only a few instances.
Moreover, as the wolf population increases, and numbers of mating pairs meet the criteria for de-listing, the wolf will become a game animal, which should (logically) instill in the wolf population a greater fear of man.

Again, this event that occurred last week was played up in the media coverage. The lack of detailed information and speculative comments could lead a reasonable person to believe the animals were within spitting distance of the USFS researcher, which was hardly the case.
The number I was given on the phone earlier today was that they weren't closer than 50 meters (which begs the question of "What good would bear spray have done at that distance?")

I get it that dog owners like you (and treeswarper) have legitimate concerns about their animals, but I just don't see any real reason to be overly concerned at this point (because of this particular incident.)
I think the unattended livestock are more likely to be subject to a greater threat than a domestic dog accompanied by a human, with or without leash or firearm.

Just my two cents.

BK

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I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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sooperfly
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PostWed Aug 01, 2018 1:38 pm 
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Some more information.  Interesting statement by the researcher.

"The Forest Service worker who stumbled onto the Loup Loup Pack’s rendezvous site actually twice climbed a tree, the second time after trying to use bear spray on a wolf that was just under 50 feet away from her and then “darted in several times.”

Article on NW Sportsman
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gb
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gb
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PostWed Aug 01, 2018 2:21 pm 
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But from the woman's account the closest the wolf approached was about 50', beyond the reach of bear spray.

Before reaching this rendezvous location she saw two wolves (presumably in the direction of the den site). Had she turned and walked away that would have been that. At some point it should have been clear the wolves were defending something. The woman said she was scared but did not feel her life is at risk - although why she thought this is a good question.

Dogs are a different case, there are many examples of wolves going after dogs which are another canine. But those are dogs, not humans.
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Ski
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PostWed Aug 01, 2018 10:00 pm 
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Andy Walgamott, reporting for NWSportsmanMag.com wrote:
"There was some confusion..."

Obviously.

The number given to me over the phone on the morning of 07/17 by Ann Froschauer, USFWS, was 50 meters, not 50 feet. (* see my response to nwhikers member harrymalamute just above *)

Any Walgamott, quoting WDFW officer Justin Trautman for NWSportsmanMag.com wrote:
“(The woman) stated that the wolf was approximately 15 meters away..."

huh.gif

So which was it, really?

(* 15 meters = 49.2126 feet *)

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I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Ski
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PostWed Aug 01, 2018 10:15 pm 
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.... and while it's all fine and well that they've apparently taken note of the fact they need to do a bit better insofar as interagency communication so we don't have researchers or other public employees out in the field unwittingly walking into known wolf denning sites, it's worth noting that not all of the wolves out there are wearing collars with GPS units.

Inevitably humans are going to have interactions with wolves, and as the wolf populations increase, the odds of those encounters occurring increase proportionately.

I am puzzled that there would even be a question on the part of WDFW as to whether or not the (readily available) helicopter should have been sent in. As noted in the article, the "optics" would not be good.
WDFW only has to have one girl out there attacked by wolves for all the torches and pitchforks to come out.

Clearly this incident raises some questions about policy and competence.

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I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Sky Hiker
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PostThu Aug 02, 2018 5:03 am 
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Ski wrote:
.... and while it's all fine and well that they've apparently taken note of the fact they need to do a bit better insofar as interagency communication so we don't have researchers or other public employees out in the field unwittingly walking into known wolf denning sites, it's worth noting that not all of the wolves out there are wearing collars with GPS units.

What about the general public there are more of those out there stumbling into denning sites. They(USFW) post sites where grizzly bear conflicts might occur why not this if there is a possible threat.
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Malachai Constant
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PostThu Aug 02, 2018 6:49 am 
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Sky Hiker wrote:
What about the general public there are more of those out there stumbling into denning sites. They(USFW) post sites where grizzly bear conflicts might occur why not this if there is a possible threat.

Because rednecks will go and kill them huh.gif

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Sky Hiker
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PostThu Aug 02, 2018 7:59 am 
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Then what's to stop them(rednecks) from killing grizzlies that are on ESA list in most states.
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Ski
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PostThu Aug 02, 2018 10:08 am 
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^ Nothing, really. Between USFWS, WDFW, USFS, and DNR they simply do not have the resources to patrol every square inch of ground.

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gb
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gb
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PostThu Aug 02, 2018 10:26 am 
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Sky Hiker wrote:
Ski wrote:
.... and while it's all fine and well that they've apparently taken note of the fact they need to do a bit better insofar as interagency communication so we don't have researchers or other public employees out in the field unwittingly walking into known wolf denning sites, it's worth noting that not all of the wolves out there are wearing collars with GPS units.

What about the general public there are more of those out there stumbling into denning sites. They(USFW) post sites where grizzly bear conflicts might occur why not this if there is a possible threat.

Thus far the loss of life from "stumbling into a den" is exactly the same as the number of people who have died falling off the edge of the earth. i.e. I wouldn't worry about it.
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Jordan
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PostFri Aug 03, 2018 3:01 am 
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gb wrote:
olderthanIusedtobe wrote:
If you're worried about wolves, there's something sorta similar that is far more likely to attack you.  But go ahead and carry on with the fear mongering and hyperbole.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=12&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiFzICLvZvcAhUh8IMKHQV0CZoQFghdMAs&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FFatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_States&usg=AOvVaw0_mR6LC-KpDOevFXG0DrRA

I've been bitten by dogs twice. Wolves haven't gotten me yet.......

But they still do attack people, right?  Is this RandyHiker?  You're so funny.

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gb
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gb
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PostFri Aug 03, 2018 8:06 am 
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Jordan wrote:
But they still do attack people, right?  Is this RandyHiker?  You're so funny.

Reference please of the "attacks". Or is it a figment of an overgrown imagination?
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RandyHiker
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PostFri Aug 03, 2018 8:54 am 
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FYI: gb and RandyHiker are different people.

In terms of average fatal attacks per year:

Sharks: 1
Gators: 1
Bears: 1
Venomous snakes and lizards: 6
Spiders: 7
Cows: 20
Dogs:28
Humans:17,000

"We have met the enemy and he is us" -- Pogo
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Forum Index > Stewardship > Wolves cause researcher to climb tree in Okanogan Co. - Heli sent in for rescue
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