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Ski
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PostFri Aug 03, 2018 8:45 am 
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gb wrote:
"Reference please of the "attacks"..."

harrymalamute cited one up-thread, but to save you the trouble of looking for it, here you go:

https://www.adfg.alaska.gov/static/home/news/pdfs/wolfattackfatality.pdf

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gb
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PostFri Aug 03, 2018 9:46 am 
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That 2010 attack in Alaska of a jogging woman was the only 20th century attack in NA. So I was wrong, one more person has died from a wolf attack than fallen off the edge of the earth. It doesn't change the analysis one bit (except to question jogging in remote areas where there may be cougars or perhaps wolves). If that one attack scares you, question your analysis.
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Ski
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PostFri Aug 03, 2018 9:53 am 
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Well... feel free to dismiss the well-documented incident as a non-issue, and make light of people's real and genuine concerns for their safety if that fits your narrative, but it still doesn't change the facts.

Here's a few more you can make light of or dismiss out of hand too:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wolf_attacks_in_North_America

(* Bear in mind that list is only for North America, so it may not necessarily be an accurate reflection of world-wide incidents. Feel free to check Google. I need to go cook some breakfast and then go paint a house. Please get back to me with some more of your arguments about this being a non-issue - I always enjoy the entertainment.)

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olderthanIusedtobe
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PostFri Aug 03, 2018 10:34 am 
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Again, how can people make such a fuss about the potential threat of a big bad wolf, yet not bat an eyelash at the number of attacks, both fatal and non-fatal, by domestic dogs?  Of course it's not an apples and oranges comparison because there are more human/domestic dog interactions than human/wolf interactions by orders of magnitude.  But if one animal is responsible for one documented death in a century and the other approximately 30 per year, which one should actually be feared?  Ask a mathematician or statistician if you need any help answering that question.

Or just go ahead and keep on fanning the flames of fear and hysteria concerning that big bad wolf from middle ages fairy tales.  Such an enlightened time in human history that was.



Or was pointed out a few posts ago, the animal you really need to be afraid of is the one that looks a lot like you do...the human.
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PostFri Aug 03, 2018 6:54 pm 
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who's making a fuss?
just citing facts. (i.e., documented occurences)

the fact is that the number of wolf attacks on humans is not zero.

whether or not that's cause for concern is entirely up to the individual.

personally I'm far more worried about idiots who are using cellular phones or text messaging while driving in traffic - those are the fools who are trying to kill me on a daily basis.

domestic dogs, cows, and cellular phone users are not the topic of this discussion. granted, I should worry more about falling off the ladder I've been working at the top end of for the last few weeks than wolves, but ladders aren't the topic here either.

dismissing out of hand the legitimate concerns of people about a predatory animal is obtuse.
your own personal value judgments may or may not be the same as theirs.
or is it that other people should not be concerned just because you say so?

what you guys aren't seeing is that it's only going to take one fatality (or serious attack), and all bets are off - all the laws in the world won't be worth a bucket of warm spit - it'll be open season on the wolf and all the King's horses and all the King's men won't stop that.

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RandyHiker
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PostFri Aug 03, 2018 7:57 pm 
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Ski wrote:
Here's a few more you can make light of or dismiss out of hand too:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wolf_attacks_in_North_America

So I counted up 11 fatal attacks in the last century-- see my list of animal attacks above with Sharks, Bears and Gators averaging 1 fatal attack per year.  Wolves are averaging 0.1 while humans are averaging 17,000

But yes tell me again how wolves are the big danger we need to guard against.

A single incident with a badly behaving human kills more people than wolves in the last century-- and we seem to be able to shrug this off and accept it at the new normal.
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olderthanIusedtobe
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PostSat Aug 04, 2018 1:29 pm 
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Ski wrote:
what you guys aren't seeing is that it's only going to take one fatality (or serious attack), and all bets are off - all the laws in the world won't be worth a bucket of warm spit - it'll be open season on the wolf and all the King's horses and all the King's men won't stop that.

I don't think I buy this premise.  Plenty of things, both animate and inanimate, lead to deaths of humans.  Most of them are tolerated with a metaphorical shrug.  If there actually was an immediate reaction to wipe out the wolves, the reason would not be because of one human death, it would be because a segment of society wants the wolves gone whether there is any justification for their indignation or not.  If society really was that moved to action by a single fatality, there are a whole lot of things that would be banned/illegal/unavailable that are in fact very easy to acquire and all around us in vast quantities.  So I think you are vastly overestimating how much impact fatalities of others has on people generally speaking.
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PostSat Aug 04, 2018 8:09 pm 
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I hope you're right.
You're obviously more trusting of your fellow man than I am.

I look around here and see way too many crackpots with guns looking for an excuse to kill something, and that would most certainly provide them that impetus.
Just my lousy two cents, of course - the world viewed through my own little jaded prism.

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PostSat Aug 04, 2018 9:36 pm 
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I think we're in agreement Ski.  I have no doubt there are crackpots out there that are very eager to kill a wolf.  I'm sure it's already happened.  Their desire to do so isn't about their concern for their fellow man or public safety.  That was my point.  Wolves are already at risk from  those types of individuals.

It might be different with wolves, but when there are fatal attacks by cougar or bear it doesn't seem like there is a public cry to eliminate all of the bears and cougars.  The particular animal that was involved is tracked and killed.
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PostSat Aug 04, 2018 9:57 pm 
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^ the cougars and bears aren't being blamed by the hunting community for reducing the populations of deer and elk, as has been the case with the wolf.

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PostSat Aug 04, 2018 10:42 pm 
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If rogue hunters choose to go on a "rampage" against wolves after some incident they would be wise to consider this event back in 1922



Three men Adults ♂ 23 December 1922
2 and 4 miles from Port Arthur, Ontario near the Sturgeon River

On 12/23, an elderly trapper left his camp to "mush down" to the village to pick up his mail. Later in the day, two miles from the settlement, two First Nations men discovered his bones and blood in the snow amidst torn pieces of harness. The two men took their own dog teams and extra ammunition out in pursuit of the same wolves but did not return. The following day, two miles from the village beyond the scene of the first fatal attack, a search party discovered the rifles and bones of the two First Nations men amidst bits of clothing and empty shells. Scattered in a circle about the scene were the carcasses of 16 wolves.
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PostSun Aug 05, 2018 5:45 pm 
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Ski wrote:
^ the cougars and bears aren't being blamed by the hunting community for reducing the populations of deer and elk, as has been the case with the wolf.

That's not entirely accurate. Depends upon to whom one listens. Cougars, and to a lesser extent, bears, are considered responsible for reducing deer populations by a fair number of hunters. I spoke with a pal who owns a ranch in EW where the deer population seems to have either moved or been thinned a fair amount, and the perp may be a cougar or family of cougars.

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PostSun Aug 05, 2018 5:49 pm 
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gb wrote:
That 2010 attack in Alaska of a jogging woman was the only 20th century attack in NA.

Last time I checked, Saskatchewan was still part of North America. Guy's name was Carnegie.

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PostSun Aug 05, 2018 8:39 pm 
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Dave - I based that comment above on posts read on a couple gun/hunting forums. Whether or not there's any validity to those claims is an open question. As I recall, most of that noise came from Idaho.

Citing incident numbers solely for North America really doesn't look at the larger picture, either. When you start digging and look at a global view, the picture changes considerably - there have been a good number of incidents documented in Asia - particularly in what is now the Russian Federation.

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PostSun Aug 05, 2018 9:00 pm 
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Well if you start looking at other continents wolves are still nowhere near as deadly as crocs, hippos, big cats, venomous snakes, etc. etc. etc.
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