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Tom
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Joined: 15 Dec 2001
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Tom
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 Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:34 pm |
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Scientist seems to have a knack for posting incriminating TRs. I'm not sure if it's just bad luck or something else.
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BigBrunyon
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Joined: 19 Mar 2015
Posts: 1456 | TRs | Pics
Location: the fitness gyms!! |
| hbb wrote: | | there's a huge sign on the side of the road that says "ATTENTION ANGLERS" in big letters, and then goes on to explain it is a catch-and-release only fishery. The same information is posted at a number of trailhead kiosks |
if you're driving looking at the roads and through the trees at the water trying to find the rocks that will yield a high amount of extremely large 'bows, you ain't seeing no signs
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AlpineRose
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Hutch
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Hutch
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Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:12 pm |
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| Tom wrote: | | Scientist seems to have a knack for posting incriminating TRs. I'm not sure if it's just bad luck or something else. |
Illegal fishing AND a drone that encroached on others' enjoyment of the outdoors - just a class act all around.
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hbb
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hbb
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Thu Aug 09, 2018 3:10 pm |
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| Bernardo wrote: | | hbb wrote: | | It could be a great fishery, but between poaching and bait fisherman, it gets hammered pretty hard. |
I don't know much about fishing, what does this mean? |
As the result of past problems with overfishing, the Middle Fork is subject to fairly restrictive rules. One of the goals of this approach is to make it more likely that the river will hold more fish--and bigger fish--than would be the case if there were different, less restrictive rules. I am grossly oversimplifying here, but if you have a bunch of fisherman pulling the biggest fish out of the river every day and eating them, you are eventually going to end up with a river that contains only a few tiny fish (or none at all).
On the Middle Fork, the rules are such that you have to release any fish you catch. In addition, it is subject to what are called "selective gear rules." This basically means that you are limited to using a fly or lure with a single, barbless hook, and can't use bait. The thinking behind this is that if the fish are going to be released, using this type of gear gives them the best chance of being released unharmed. A barbed treble hook, for example, is pretty difficult to get out of a fish's mouth without causing injury. This is especially true if bait is used, because fish tend to swallow bait (again, I am oversimplifying).
Rivers that are close to Seattle and have easy access--like the Middle Fork, the Cedar, and to a lesser extent the South Fork--are really vulnerable to overfishing. When you get a bunch of assholes out there illegally keeping fish (poaching) or fishing with illegal gear like bait, it ruins it for everyone else. It's incredibly selfish, but disappointingly common.
It's not much different than restrictions on campfires in wilderness areas, or quotas on overnight camping in popular zones. There are rules to protect the resource so others can enjoy it, and it doesn't get destroyed. If you want to have a campfire (or keep a nice big trout), there are lots and lots of places to do so legally. But, some people just don't care about anyone but themselves, and just do whatever they want, and the rest of us are stuck with the consequences.
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Bernardo
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Joined: 08 Feb 2010
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Location: out and about in the world |
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Bernardo
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Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:53 pm |
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Hbb, thanks for the thoughtful reply. Seems like it may be a failed policy if it results in a permanent ban on keeping fish.
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Tom
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Joined: 15 Dec 2001
Posts: 17854 | TRs | Pics
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Tom
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Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:57 pm |
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| Hutch wrote: | | Tom wrote: | | Scientist seems to have a knack for posting incriminating TRs. I'm not sure if it's just bad luck or something else. |
Illegal fishing AND a drone that encroached on others' enjoyment of the outdoors - just a class act all around. |
I don't think the OP intended to run afoul of the fishing regs. At least some of the replies in this regard were semi-constructive and have redeeming educational value. The drone comment seems petty though and a good example of why the TR comment policy was instituted. I personally think drones are cool and have no problem with them being used where legal. 
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Ski
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Joined: 28 May 2005
Posts: 12832 | TRs | Pics
Location: tacoma |
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Ski
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Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:31 pm |
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| hbb wrote: | | "...the rules are such that you have to release any fish you catch. In addition, it is subject to what are called "selective gear rules." This basically means that you are limited to using a fly or lure with a single, barbless hook, and can't use bait. The thinking behind this is that if the fish are going to be released, using this type of gear gives them the best chance of being released unharmed. A barbed treble hook, for example, is pretty difficult to get out of a fish's mouth without causing injury. This is especially true if bait is used, because fish tend to swallow bait (again, I am oversimplifying).
Rivers that are close to Seattle and have easy access--like the Middle Fork, the Cedar, and to a lesser extent the South Fork--are really vulnerable to overfishing. When you get a bunch of assholes out there illegally keeping fish (poaching) or fishing with illegal gear like bait, it ruins it for everyone else. It's incredibly selfish, but disappointingly common. |
Actually, your "over simplified" explanation is quite adequate and spot on.
Rivers don't need to be near metropolitan areas in order to be abused by idiots who don't bother to read (or follow) posted regs. I see jackasses every year beating the Queets to a froth using big Mepps-type spinners with barbed treble hooks.
| Bernardo wrote: | | "...Seems like it may be a failed policy if it results in a permanent ban on keeping fish." |
Olympic National Park instituted their "catch and release" rules in 1993, based partly on the results seen in Yellowstone National Park when "catch and release" rules were put into effect.
The net result (in the Yellowstone River) was that the native trout population rebounded significantly.
(* pers. comm. John Meyer, fisheries biologist, ONP, 1993 *)
| Tom wrote: | | "I don't think the OP intended to run afoul of the fishing regs..." |
I don't either. As noted above, WDFW does not make it easy to understand the regs in their information.
It is, nonetheless, the angler's responsibility to know and follow the regs on any body of water he drops a line into.
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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puzzlr
Mid Fork Rocks
Joined: 13 Feb 2007
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Location: Stuck in the middle |
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puzzlr
Mid Fork Rocks
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Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:23 pm |
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Not being a person that fishes, I'm learning a lot from this thread.
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Mikey
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Mikey
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Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:43 am |
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hbb
Note that on Aug 7 2018 posted the Middle Fork Snoqualmie Rules, correcting my incorrect earlier post.
The Middle Fork Snoqualmie River fishing regulations are shown on page 41 as if the Snoqualmie Middle Fork was a river not in the Snoqualmie River system (the Snoqualmie River fishing rules are on page 40).
Page 41 Snoqualmie River, Middle Fork (King. Co.) from mouth upstream including all tributaries except Pratt and Taylor rivers. All Game Fish Year-round Catch-and-release and selective gear rules. Internal combustion motors prohibited.
But the WDFW did not publish the Middle Fork Snoqualmie Rules under Snoqualmie River along with rules for the North and South Forks which are on page 40. There is no reason for the WDFW to make the fishing rules difficult and/or confusing to read.
Unfortunately, the WDFW is messed up, partly because the State Govt increases responsibilities and tasks for WDFW without providing funding for the increased work. Take a look at the WDFW budget showing its income and expenditures. Many of the expenditures have no income source such as fishing and hunting license fees. Years ago when the State General Fund was short of $, the State (Governor et al) cut the WDFW budget so the WDFW became creative regarding increasing their income (lottery system for hunting tags, etc), but this topic is straying far from hiking.
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Ski
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Joined: 28 May 2005
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Location: tacoma |
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Ski
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Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:35 am |
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| Mikey wrote: | | Unfortunately, the WDFW is messed up, partly because the State Govt increases responsibilities and tasks for WDFW without providing funding for the increased work. Take a look at the WDFW budget showing its income and expenditures. Many of the expenditures have no income source such as fishing and hunting license fees. Years ago when the State General Fund was short of $, the State (Governor et al) cut the WDFW budget so the WDFW became creative regarding increasing their income (lottery system for hunting tags, etc), but this topic is straying far from hiking. |
The press release from WDFW regarding their budget proposals for the next biennium is in the Stewardship forum HERE:
WDFW Press Release of 08/03/18 regarding Fish and Wildlife Commission to meet Aug. 9-11 to discuss budget proposals, wolves
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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hbb
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Joined: 06 Aug 2009
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hbb
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Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:50 am |
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| Bernardo wrote: | | Hbb, thanks for the thoughtful reply. Seems like it may be a failed policy if it results in a permanent ban on keeping fish. |
Well, from the angler's perspective it's better to have a year-round catch-and-release fishery than no fishery at all. If things get bad enough, WDFW will just ban fishing on the Middle Fork entirely.
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Ski
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Joined: 28 May 2005
Posts: 12832 | TRs | Pics
Location: tacoma |
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Ski
><((((°>
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Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:13 am |
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| hbb wrote: | | "If things get bad enough, WDFW will just ban fishing on the Middle Fork entirely." |
^ True.
Another factor that comes into play is that several species of fishes have been (or are candidates for being) listed as threatened or endangered species, which legally compels wildlife management agencies to institute more proactive policies (i.e., shutting down sportfishing altogether on a given river/watershed.)
WDFW issues press releases on an almost daily basis, and several times a month I'll get an email announcing a closure (or additional restrictions) imposed somewhere. I don't generally post them in the WDFW News Releases thread because there are so many of them, and this is primarily a hiking forum.
The most recent one was during the last few days, and it was a closure (on all sportfishing) on the lower Nisqually River.
We are well off the topic at hand here, but I'm hoping this will help to provide answers for some questions.
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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