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Wiki summmary last edited by Windstorm on Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:00 pm (this post can be edited by any member)
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Ski ><((((°>
Joined: 28 May 2005 Posts: 12798 | TRs | Pics Location: tacoma |
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Ski
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Sun Sep 23, 2018 12:06 am
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Broad-brush unsupported generalizations, innuendo, and character assassination will have absolutely zero impact on any of the lands management agencies which are responsible for the administration of the area.
It would be far more constructive to keep the discussion in this thread on topic.
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Fallaway wrote: | The poster who shared this picture also had pictures of scraps of caution tape in the vicinity of the bag. |
Fallaway, you linked to one image which shows a small snip of the yellow caution tape on top of a rock. Are there other photos of these bags (or their contents) available? Can you post them here or link to them?
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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SwitchbackFisher Boot buster
Joined: 24 Feb 2018 Posts: 364 | TRs | Pics Location: Wa |
Ski wrote: | Broad-brush unsupported generalizations, innuendo, and character assassination will have absolutely zero impact on any of the lands management agencies which are responsible for the administration of the area.
It would be far more constructive to keep the discussion in this thread on topic.
==
Fallaway wrote: | The poster who shared this picture also had pictures of scraps of caution tape in the vicinity of the bag. |
Fallaway, you linked to one image which shows a small snip of the yellow caution tape on top of a rock. Are there other photos of these bags (or their contents) available? Can you post them here or link to them? |
I agree that this probably should be left to end here before it becomes another topic that gets out of hand.
I also would like to see more pictures especially since the 2 posted it appeared the bag was in good condition then the second picture almost looked staged with the tape. Probably someone just trying to stir the pot in my opinion. If I ran across one of these I would treat it the same as any other trash and remove it.
I may not be the smartest, I may not be the strongest, but I don't want to be. I only want to be the best I can be.
I may not be the smartest, I may not be the strongest, but I don't want to be. I only want to be the best I can be.
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pula58 Member
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 Posts: 587 | TRs | Pics
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pula58
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Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:12 am
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burck17 wrote: | If I ran across one of these I would treat it the same as any other trash and remove it. |
absolutely. to me "leave no trace" also means cleaning-up other peoples trace whenever/wherever possible.
Leaving bags with food distributed around the Vesper trail is, in my opinion, anti-stewardship.
It is exactly what NOT to do in terms of training bears to associate these locations with food. This could lead to human deaths from bear attack. Not to mention that the bags will end up as garbage strewn about the area.
The searchers have shown disregard to stewardship issues, and disregard towards the safety of other people with these food bags, placing many other people quite possibly in harms way.
I will not be going up there to take photos or report on what the situation is because , quite frankly, I am afraid of that group of people. Budd Carr has publicly threatened forest service chief Peter Forbes with violence, and has said that he's so pissed that he'd cut down every tree on the mountain. Dangerous.
With all the military flavor (camouflage gear, militaristic language, verbiage like "operation endless pursuit") of this high camp "command center" no way I would go up there, and I hope they are removed by local law enforcement.
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Schroder Member
Joined: 26 Oct 2007 Posts: 6696 | TRs | Pics Location: on the beach |
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Schroder
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Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:31 am
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Ski wrote: | Fallaway wrote: | The poster who shared this picture also had pictures of scraps of caution tape in the vicinity of the bag. |
Fallaway, you linked to one image which shows a small snip of the yellow caution tape on top of a rock. Are there other photos of these bags (or their contents) available? Can you post them here or link to them? |
I had the impression when I saw these that it was up Williamson Creek and Stony Creek
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Schroder Member
Joined: 26 Oct 2007 Posts: 6696 | TRs | Pics Location: on the beach |
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Schroder
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Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:52 am
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As far as I can tell their base camp is in the NRCA just left of the upper left corner of the patch of National Forest in this map, on the bench on the ridge. Sperry Peak, the trail up to Headlee Pass, upper Wirtz Basin and the entire Lake Elan basin is in the NRCA.
MorningStarNRCA
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Ski ><((((°>
Joined: 28 May 2005 Posts: 12798 | TRs | Pics Location: tacoma |
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Ski
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Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:55 am
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images linked to in Fallaway's post on previous page:
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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kmbb206 Member
Joined: 21 Sep 2018 Posts: 1 | TRs | Pics
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kmbb206
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Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:59 am
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Ski ><((((°>
Joined: 28 May 2005 Posts: 12798 | TRs | Pics Location: tacoma |
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Ski
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Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:12 am
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Schroder, you seem familiar with the area. The map you posted there makes me ask:
- Is what appears to be a body of water between Vesper Peak and Sperry Peak a lake? And does it drain down into Vesper Creek?
- In the legend, it shows those tiny numbers on the streams as "State type", but the DNR website says they've changed that numeric type system to one using names (i.e., "fish", "non-fish", etc.)
Tell me if I've got this right here: The watershed between Vesper Peak and Sperry Peak drains into Vesper Creek, a tributary of the Sultan River, which appears to be a Class I (fish-bearing) stream. Correct?
The Culmback Dam is downstream from that point and prevents fish passage beyond that point in the river, correct?
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Schroder Member
Joined: 26 Oct 2007 Posts: 6696 | TRs | Pics Location: on the beach |
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Schroder
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Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:20 am
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Ski wrote: | - Is what appears to be a body of water between Vesper Peak and Sperry Peak a lake? And does it drain down into Vesper Creek? |
It's Lake Elan (some hiking books call it Vesper Lake). Yes, it drains to Vesper Creek -> Sultan River -> Spada Lake. Spada Lake is dammed.
If you look at the Morning Star Trails Plan, you'll find the stream classification maps
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Ski ><((((°>
Joined: 28 May 2005 Posts: 12798 | TRs | Pics Location: tacoma |
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Ski
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Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:22 am
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thanks. just needed to do some digging to ferret that out.
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Anne Elk BrontosaurusTheorist
Joined: 07 Sep 2018 Posts: 2410 | TRs | Pics Location: Seattle |
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Anne Elk
BrontosaurusTheorist
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Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:22 am
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Schroder, thanks for sharing the detailed jurisdiction map. Those are some strange carve-outs. It would be interesting to know the history behind that. If I had to guess, it perhaps has something to do with old mining claims.
"There are yahoos out there. It’s why we can’t have nice things." - Tom Mahood
"There are yahoos out there. It’s why we can’t have nice things." - Tom Mahood
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Schroder Member
Joined: 26 Oct 2007 Posts: 6696 | TRs | Pics Location: on the beach |
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Schroder
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Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:44 am
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I've stared at a Google satellite overlay to the USGS map and now I'm thinking they're close to the lake outlet in that National Forest section.
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Ski ><((((°>
Joined: 28 May 2005 Posts: 12798 | TRs | Pics Location: tacoma |
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Ski
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Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:47 am
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The dam at Spada Lake notwithstanding, from what I can glean from a cursory look at the DNR documents they're saying there's a resident population of Bull Trout in that watershed?
Or is it just another case of "suitable habitat"?
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Schroder Member
Joined: 26 Oct 2007 Posts: 6696 | TRs | Pics Location: on the beach |
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Schroder
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Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:50 am
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There definitely are bull trout on the upper Sultan River and Elk Creek. Since they abandoned the upper Sultan road that valley has been covered with a lot of beaver dams. There's a lot of water in that basin.
Those images of the bags are at the Lake Elan outlet. I recall seeing other photos of tape & bags in the woods and they were down on Williamson Creek.
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Anne Elk BrontosaurusTheorist
Joined: 07 Sep 2018 Posts: 2410 | TRs | Pics Location: Seattle |
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Anne Elk
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Sun Sep 23, 2018 12:08 pm
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Schroder wrote: | I've stared at a Google satellite overlay to the USGS map and now I'm thinking they're close to the lake outlet in that National Forest section. |
If you enlarge the photo put up by Bramble_Scramble on 9/20 on this page of the old thread, you can see the big white tent on the far ridge, between the two largest trees.
https://www.nwhikers.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1138969#1138969
"There are yahoos out there. It’s why we can’t have nice things." - Tom Mahood
"There are yahoos out there. It’s why we can’t have nice things." - Tom Mahood
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