[wiki summary]

Please keep this topic within the boundaries of stewardship. Feel free to link alternative discussions below in this wiki post but do NOT spam this topic with such discussion or invite requests. Such posts will be deleted. Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Washington/comments/9erxip/sam_sayers_still_missing_in_washington/ 2nd Reddit Thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/comments/9hc0em/missing_hiker_on_vesper_peak_chaos_in_the_cascades/ Teton Gravity: https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/321860 Facebook: Official page and alternative facebook group no longer public New Facebook study group created by Steve Monchak on 10/8 The Truth of the Sam Sayers Case https://www.facebook.com/groups/698480987181194/ (no longer public on 11/8/18, reappeared as a closed group 12/7/18)

[Tom]

As Anne Elk pointed out, ridicule isn't the purpose for leaving the stewardship aspects of the discussion open. Let's try to keep the off-topic negative energy out of this thread.

[SMPaul]

Even with the weather turning, has anyone from NWHikers been up there recently? If so, what can you report on the camp and environment?

[Anne Elk]

[Tom]

Deleted some non-stewardship related posts. Also, public FB group seems to be private now (sorry, deleted a post that I thought was asking for yet another invite to the alternate group).

[Brushwork]

I'm glad that the group is out of there safely. It so easily could have been different. The vegetation may take a long time to heal but it will. At least it was a short duration relative to if it had happened earlier. Where the roots of heather aren't destroyed, the above ground portion can regrow. So maybe some will survive. Hope her family finds peace.

[Tom]

Folks, I've removed another round of non-stewardship posts. Perhaps the wiki isn't clear. This topic is open to discuss stewardship. Opinions / questions / posts about anything else will be removed.

[Anne Elk]

Didn't see 'em, but thanks, Tom!

[rbuzby]

Kevin Dares announced on Facebook they are done with the search up higher. Pictures posted indicate they flew the gear out, but he doesn't say that. This part of his statement suggests that stewardship will continue to be an issue: This is not the end. Our search for Samantha will continue. We will challenge the bureaucracies that seek to stifle a family’s ability to recover a lost loved one. We will empower future families to fight to their greatest capabilities for those that they love, and we will continue to push to ensure that those lost within these regions will receive the greatest chance possible of survival.

[philfort]

[KnotSurreal]

[Anne Elk]

Amazing photos, googling that! Not having been to Yosemite et al, I'd no idea bears could/would break into cars. There were plenty of bear problems when I lived in the Banff area decades ago, but breaking into cars was mostly unheard of. I'd be surprised if there were bears in the Vesper area, what with all the easy pickings in the Mountain Loop Hwy campgrounds. I've no idea what the history is with bear problems in that area. I'd secretly hoped the official SAR people were putting out "token" baggies but not all the ones the family gave them (not asking!!).

[Malachai Constant]

Yosemite is not that bad now, most of the incidents of bears breaking into cars are from more than 10 years ago, they were truly a problem now. The improvement has occurred by the strict requirement of canisters and prohibition of leaving ANY food in cars. Now if your can is broken into and there is evidence you left food there you are subject to a big fine likewise if you overnight without a canister. The bear is relocated or destroyed. The park loans canisters for free or a nominal fee. The folks at Vesper should be subject to similar rules I am afraid the innocent who abide by the rules will bear the cost.

[KnotSurreal]

It seems many people up here don't realize what it's like in the Sierra. For example, a few years ago we took the slow "high mountain route" down to visit my Grandma in Oakhurst, CA. At a campground somewhere south of Tahoe a mama black bear broke into my car. She had a cub with her and was probably showing junior how it was done. When we got to Oakhurst, which is 13 miles from the South Gate of Yosemite, I took my car into a few of body shops for estimates. The very first thing they all asked was "What did you leave in your car?". Unfortunately "that" was an empty clear plastic Dasani waterbottle I'd missed in a backseat cup holder. I did not replace my driver's door in Oakhurst due to time constraints, thinking that I'd take care of it when I got home. The door didn't close, the window wouldn't roll up and the wind whistle was bad at freeway speed making it an unpleasant trip north. So, back home in Seattle, I took my car into 3 body shops to get estimates for my insurance company and not one of them had any idea what had caused the damage. They all thought that my car had been broken into because I'd left an electronic device in it. When I told them that a bear had caused the damage they were absolutely incredulous! I hope that all of us who enjoy the Cascade, both the experienced and the novice, only have to worry about humans breaking into cars and not food conditioned bears. We don't want to create a problem to which there is no solution.

[Malachai Constant]

I have been hiking in the High Sierra since the late 70’s to this Summer and have never had a problem with bears although I have seen many. Things were bad a few years ago because people were stupid and trained the bears. Only incident I have heard from a real person two years ago was a couple guys who had a bear take off with a pack left on the ground outside a tent at Rosalie Lake which had some candy in a pocket. Some bears near Yosemite valley were raiding packs left at half dome also. The bears were killed.

[KnotSurreal]

I just don't think we need to invite that problem into our own backyard. If we can be proactive and prevent the food conditioning of black bears to begin with, we won't have to deal with the consequences of having done so.