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Ski
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PostThu Oct 18, 2018 12:08 pm 
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I am not a supporter of "The Heritage Foundation".

I never suggested that animals do not have an intrinsic value.

I question the wisdom of the policy of "at any cost". It is simply not sustainable in the real world.

Additionally, the ESA has been used (as noted above in this thread) by various activist organizations (Center for Biological Diversity being one of the most active) who have weaponized the act against federal agencies such as USFWS and USFS. I do not believe it was the intent of the United States Congress to enact a law which served to become the means of support for activist "animal rights" group, which in fact it has.

Those few success stories, like the Bald Eagle you mention, are but a drop in a very large bucket compared to the dismal (and very expensive) failure of the ESA to effect any significant recovery of a great number of other species which have been listed under the ESA.

==

In other news: the Queets River has also been closed to the taking of all wild fish for the period beginning October 1 through November 30 including the Quinault Tribal Nation managed lower four miles of the river due to low return numbers of wild fish.
There hasn't been a WDFW notice on that one because it doesn't concern WDFW.

(Normally they'd have their nets strung across the river this time of year.)

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PostThu Oct 18, 2018 2:00 pm 
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United States Senator Maria Cantwell, in an email of 10/18/18 wrote:


Thank you for contacting me regarding the Endangered Salmon Predation Prevention Act (S. 3119). I appreciate hearing from you on this important issue.

As you may know, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, which runs the Bonneville Dam, estimates that California sea lions forage as much as 43 percent of the endangered Columbia spring-migrating Chinook salmon each year. Salmon, steelhead and sturgeon are the natural prey species for California sea lions. Historically, California sea lion populations had dropped to only 1,000 animals in the 1930s. Today, California sea lion numbers have surged to over 300,000 individuals along the West Coast.

Wildlife officials in Washington, Oregon, and Idaho have made efforts to relocate, deter and remove sea lions that habitually prey on endangered salmon up river. Some have been relocated to zoos and aquariums across the country and some have been euthanized under authorization from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) under the Marine Mammal Protection Act, or MMPA. Despite these existing programs, sea lions have entered into habitats where they have never been before. A recent study from Oregon State University found that increasing predation from sea lions has led to an 89 percent chance that a stock of winter Willamette steelhead could go extinct. The study also stated that any future salmon management plans will need to address the threat of predatory sea lions.

That is why I introduced the bipartisan Endangered Salmon Predation Prevention Act (S. 3119) with my colleague, Senator Risch from Idaho. Our bill would build upon existing laws by giving state and tribal fishery managers more flexibility to address predatory sea lions in the Columbia River system using science-based, humane management. The bill ensures that management is done consistent with the best available science and the National Environmental Policy Act process, and requires humane treatment. I have worked carefully with my Senate colleagues and state and tribal wildlife managers on this bill. On August 1st, 2018 S. 3119 unanimously passed through the Senate Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation. A similar version has already passed through the U.S. House of Representatives on July 26th, 2018.

While I do believe we should strive to conserve all species, I am also mindful of the need to protect endangered salmon populations from human and natural threats. On the federal level, I am working on a number of initiatives to help restore salmon populations across the Pacific Northwest, including habitat restoration and addressing serious threats like climate change and ocean acidification.

Please know I will keep your thoughts in mind as this bill moves through the Senate.

Thank you again for contacting me to share your thoughts on this matter. Please do not hesitate to contact me in the future if I can be of further assistance.

Sincerely,
Maria Cantwell
United States Senator

For future correspondence with my office, please visit my website at
http://cantwell.senate.gov/contact/




(* emphasis added *)

Here's an example of how a well-intentioned effort to save one animal, the California Gray Whale, went awry when the California Sea Lion was included with the whale in the 1972 Marine Mammal Protection Act.
From the days of "Herschel" up at the Hiram M. Chittenden locks in Ballard in the mid-1980s, sport fishermen and others concerned about runs of wild anadromous salmonids have been clamoring to address the issue of the sea lions' predation of wild fish - all to no avail.
Bill after bill after bill has been introduced at the State Legislative level, and not one of them ever made it to a floor for a vote.

And who stood in opposition to the removal of the sea lions? Those same animal rights activist groups who now use the ESA as a weapon to sue USFWS and USFS because they're not doing enough to "protect" endangered species.

Hey guess what? Salmon and steelhead were not on the TES list in the mid-1980s when this issue first started.

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treeswarper
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PostThu Oct 18, 2018 3:21 pm 
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I read yesterday where the California sea lions are getting sick with leptospirosis.  Perhaps that will thin the herd a bit when/if it arrives up this way.

Saving animals and such is all well and good until YOUR source of income is deemed to be a threat to a creature, you have to move and make a major life change and maybe have a much lower standard of living, and you watch as the endangered critter still declines  in numbers despite all the money thrown at it and land saved for it.

So, in the spirit of ruining the lives of more humans, why isn't a total ban placed on ALL fishing for salmon put in place.  I'm meaning sport and commercial and out in the ocean.  Just stop it all for a few years?

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PostThu Oct 18, 2018 4:03 pm 
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Well.... there are too many stakeholders involved that want the money: commercial fishermen and the tribes primarily.
If you go back through and look at all those closure notices from WDFW I've posted over the last several weeks you'll see that a whole lot of rivers, including a good portion of the Columbia, have been closed (or have had more restrictive regulations put into effect.)
However, it should be noted that even total closures will have a limited effect, because the declines of anadromous salmonid runs are due to a variety of factors, some of which are beyond our ability to control, like the rising temperatures of ocean waters.

treeswarper wrote:
I read yesterday where the California sea lions are getting sick with leptospirosis.

Good. Hope they start dying off by the thousands. They don't serve much of any purpose - the Indians stopped eating them long ago and sealskin boots aren't really in fashion these days.

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treeswarper
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PostThu Oct 18, 2018 5:08 pm 
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I used to kayak a lot in Alsea Bay (central Oregon coast).  The seals had a bit of fear so didn't bother.  They'd pop up around but stayed out of reach.  The last time I kayaked, it was scary.  I suspect some idiots had been feeding them while kayaking and the beasts were chasing my boat and getting closer...

I did not want to be tipped over so called it quits.

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Malachai Constant
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PostThu Oct 18, 2018 5:30 pm 
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California Sea Lions are a very different critter than Harbor Seals bigger and much more aggressive.

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PostThu Oct 18, 2018 5:34 pm 
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In the 1960s, when my father used to take me down to go salmon fishing out of Westport, every commercial charter boat down there had a .30-06 on board, and the skipper (or first mate) would waste no time dispatching any seal or sea lion that was stupid enough to show its head above water. They were considered a nuisance - like rats.

The last time I was in Newport, Oregon, much of the public dock area was unusable because it had been overtaken by sea lions who liked to lay about on the docks basking in the sun.

Native Americans formerly would sneak up on them and club them to death while they lay on the rocks sleeping. Ungainly animals on land, their slowness made them relatively easy prey.
I understand their pelts made great rainproof cloaks.

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PostFri Oct 19, 2018 7:27 am 
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Ski wrote:

"I never suggested that animals do not have an intrinsic value."

Ski wrote:
Hope they start dying off by the thousands. They don't serve much of any purpose

confused.gif

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PostWed Oct 24, 2018 8:30 pm 
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Wednesday October 24, 2018 16:31 PDT

WDFW FISHING RULE CHANGE 

A portion of the Dungeness River closes to fishing until coho abundance improves


Action: Closes all fishing for a portion of the Dungeness River.

Effective date: October 26, 2018 until further notice.

Species affected: All species.

Location: Dungeness River from the mouth to the Gray Wolf River at the Dungeness Forks Campground.

Reason for action: Currently the number of coho salmon that have returned to the Dungeness River is below pre-season expectations. To help ensure escapement needs are met, the river will close to angling until further notice. 

Additional information: Fishery co-managers will continue to monitor escapement. Once there is greater certainty that broodstock needs and spawning objectives will be met, the fishery will re-opened.

Information contact: Region 6 Office, (360) 249-4628.

-WDFW-

(* emphasis added *)

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treeswarper
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PostThu Oct 25, 2018 9:11 am 
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I was listening to the news on public radio this morning.  I do not know if they had edited it--I like to think not, but they had Cathy McMorris Rogers stating that the salmon runs on our rivers had more salmon than before the dams.  This was taken from a debate last night in Walla Walla.

I am not a proponent of ripping out all the dams as I know where my power comes from, but that seems a bit like a......lie?

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PostThu Oct 25, 2018 11:05 am 
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Sounds like "alternate facts" tripe to me.

Patently false. Runs of anadromous salmonids have been in a steady and precipitous decline since the dams were built on the Columbia/Snake watershed, and the WDFW press releases posted above in this thread are ample evidence that it's getting worse as each year passes.

McMorris Rogers is using a ploy right out of the Josef Goebbels playbook:

"If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it, and you will even come to believe it yourself."

"A lie told once remains a lie but a lie told a thousand times becomes the truth."


The removal of the hydroelectric dams would cause economic havoc in eastern Washington. Supposedly there are a few on the Snake that could feasibly be breached, but with other dams downstream allowing no fish passage, what's the point?
The dams were poorly designed and didn't provide for fish passage.
The Norwegians made the same mistake and pretty much wiped out all of their native salmon runs. That's why they invented "farm-raised fish". eck.gif

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treeswarper
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PostThu Oct 25, 2018 2:39 pm 
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I keep thinking that somebody somewhere has the smarts to come up with a fish friendlier ladder.  I wish some of the money thrown at trucking fish around, sucking them up to move, etc. could be used to excavate a fish passage around Grand Coulee Dam.

I suspect that like other good intentioned projects, the money for fish restoration gets siphoned off at the top for "managers".

Meanwhile, we have to sort out what are lies and what is truth from politicians who have sunk to a horrible low.

I've just depressed myself.  Time to go for a walk with a happy dog.

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PostThu Oct 25, 2018 3:56 pm 
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treeswarper wrote:
"...Cathy McMorris Rogers stating that the salmon runs on our rivers had more salmon than before the dams."

There will always be politicians who lie. For that matter, we can consider it a given that all politicians are liars. That fact is that most politicians lie most of the time.

The larger problem is that there are people who are stupid enough to believe the lies. Too stupid, and too lazy to bother to research the facts for themselves.

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Forum Index > Stewardship > 12 Success stories of the Endangered Species Act
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