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Anne Elk
BrontosaurusTheorist



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PostFri Nov 30, 2018 11:41 pm 
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Shockey is a Canadian big-game outfitter.  Totally dedicated to trophy hunt outfitting and its promotion via his TV shows.  From his Wikipedia entry:

Quote:
"the most accomplished big-game hunter of the modern era, having taken arguably the most free-range big game species by any living hunter."

"Grizzly bear plague"?  Please. This guy is using this horrific incident to justify the growing business of trophy hunting in Canada's wilderness. He talks about "doing what is right for the minority of people who live in the rural areas of our countries" as though this bear was prowling around the outskirts of Whitehorse. Einarson Lake is 130 miles from Mayo, which is the "end of the road" in that area of the NWT.  I can't speculate on that bear's behavior or why it wasn't in hibernation yet.  But that cabin was in bear territory.  Pure wilderness. Should anyone go strolling near a trapline cabin without a gun? Probably not.

As Shockey alludes to in his screed, this is a hot political issue in Canada. I'm only familiar with it relative to British Columbia, tracking news through the Great Bear Rainforest nonprofit Pacific Wild -  Stop the Trophy Hunt  The video is difficult to watch.  I can't fathom the minds of people who kill beautiful animals for fun.  From the website:

Quote:
Once numbering an estimated 35,000 in B.C., grizzly populations have been reduced to anywhere from 6,000 to 15,000. Government science used to estimate populations, and therefore set hunting quotas, is in dispute, and nobody knows exactly how many grizzlies remain. Yet every year trophy hunters shoot between 300 and 400 grizzlies.

Check out the rest of the Pacific Wild website, BTW. They've been doing some great photo and video work documenting the coastal wildlife in the GB Rainforest. The coast "fishing wolves" are amazing.

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"There are yahoos out there.  Itís why we canít have nice things."  - Tom Mahood
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treeswarper
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PostSat Dec 01, 2018 8:16 am 
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wanderwild wrote:
The problem is that Joe's point, while valid in context and in emotionality, is what wipes species off the planet. It is why these animals cease to exist in 99% (exact number not known) of their original habitat. It happened ravenously throughout the 1800's and much of the 1900's, because most of our population was expanding into the wild west and thus dealing with it's challenges. At some point we need to leave some of the "wild west" as is.

If we don't want this to happen again, we should increase hunting quotas until it never happens again. In other words, eventually kill all bears.

Sound like a good idea?

That being said, no one "deserves" it, and shame on people for sending death threats to hunters like Joe says in his response. That's not acceptable in practice and it comes from ignorance-based hatred.

Another, and I believe important point: An innocent person was killed by unnecessary violence from another human in some big city today. There are dangers to being alive, such as you might die.

You are exaggerating.  Go to a National Park and observe the unusual animal behavior.  Then go to area where the same animals are hunted.  You won't see the animals that are not in parks as much because they have a healthy fear of people.  That's what the guy is suggesting.  Increasing hunting PERMITS issued.  Not unregulated hunting.  Also, a fact about hunting that seems to be lost is that not everybody who gets a permit will get a kill.  That winnows it down more.

The author is suggesting that bears be hunted to instill a fear of humans.

I also wonder if that is an area where problem bears are sent to.  Was watching a youtube video of a trip through some wilderness and the guys on the trip changed their route because they had heard that problem grizzlies were relocated to the area of their original route.

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Anne Elk
BrontosaurusTheorist



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PostSat Dec 01, 2018 9:22 am 
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treeswarper wrote:
go to area where the same animals are hunted.  You won't see the animals that are not in parks as much because they have a healthy fear of people.  That's what the guy is suggesting. ... The author is suggesting that bears be hunted to instill a fear of humans. ... a fact about hunting that seems to be lost is that not everybody who gets a permit will get a kill.

There's truth to what treeswarper says. I lived in Banff, Alberta in the mid 70's and again in the early 80's.  You never, NEVER saw an elk wandering around town.  Maybe around the traffic circle out on the highway (good browsing). During return visits in the 90's, they were all over town, and of course the tourists were acting like they do at Yellowstone, so it became a real problem.  I was mystified by the behavior change and thought it had something to do with re-design of the traffic circle and other road mods that encouraged them to wander into town.  It wasn't that.  Friends who were long-time residents explained that the main thing that changed was that "in the good old days" the park wardens used to shoot at the elk (don't know if that extended to herd culling), but it kept the elk fearful about going near town.

I don't know if grizzlies who are not habituated to associate humans with food will go out of their way to attack them (sows with cubs excepted).  Haven't seen any follow-up reports that this was a relocated "problem bear".  As far as "not everyone who gets a permit will get a kill",  you can bet that these big-time guides are making sure their clients get a kill; otherwise they'd be out of business.

My prejudice is that I'd like to see Canada not go the way of certain countries in Africa- enabling the decimation of what remains of their wild animals because of the huge revenues involved in guided big-game hunting.  One thing I do know is that the Canadian native tribes are against it; at least in BC.

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"There are yahoos out there.  Itís why we canít have nice things."  - Tom Mahood
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RandyHiker
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PostSat Dec 01, 2018 10:17 am 
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The rant is a ploy to advance a pro hunting agenda.

The original article doesn't contain enough information to judge the circumstances of the tragic deaths.

The rant asserts that is is against Canadian law to shoot a bear in the act trying to break into a cabin in order to kill and eat a human.  I am very skeptical of that claim.  Does anyone know the Canadian law well enough to provide some actual detail of the law.
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Sculpin
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PostSat Dec 01, 2018 2:58 pm 
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Anne Elk wrote:
I don't know if grizzlies who are not habituated to associate humans with food will go out of their way to attack them

I read a study of some grizzlies in a remote area of the Yukon that would.  There is very little to eat out there, so they roam over vast ranges in search of anything that moves.  Males in that region have been known to follow females for days before overtaking them and killing and eating them.  The females are only safe from predation by males during mating season.

More important even than grizzly/black is whether the bear derives a significant amount of its nutrition from large game.  The biggest bear I ever saw was on the side of the road in a remote and very desolate area of eastern Colorado.  It was eating a sheep and it was a black bear.  The shape of the bear was nothing like you see here, it had huge hindquarters.  When we pulled over, the bear looked up, and my blood ran cold.  I immediately knew that that bear would kill and eat me if it got the chance.  I had just had numerous encounters with grizzlies in the backcountry of Glacier NP, and none of them had given me that look.

The poor woman and child just encountered the wrong bear at the wrong time.   shakehead.gif

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Even my best friends, they don't know, that my job is turning lead into gold. When you hear that engine drone, I'm on the road again, and I'm searching for the philosopher's stone - Van Morrison
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Malachai Constant
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PostSat Dec 01, 2018 3:12 pm 
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Randyhiker, I know when we were living in Ontario a bear drug a guy out of an outhouse in the cottage district north of Toronto. A friend grabbed a rifle and shot the bear and was generally regarded a hero, no charges. Americans sometimes think of Canadians as bleeding heart wimps, this is not the case.  Anadian gun ownership is as high or higher than in the US but few short guns. Dangerous animals are dispatched quickly with little fanfare. Canadian law is based on English  Common Law which up holds the Castile Docerine. I am not familiar with Yukon Law but I would be extremely surprised to think you have no right of self defense in your domicile. Property right are follow as much or more in Canada than the US.

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"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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RumiDude
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PostSat Dec 01, 2018 7:45 pm 
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The record of humans with modern weapons hunting large game, especially predators, to the point of extirpation is a real thing. So much so that extra protections have had to be placed on them so that populations of them can recover. It is one of the reasons I and others distrust the claims of the "locals", especially a local who makes his living hunting these large predators. Anything claimed by Jim Shockey should be dismissed out of hand simply because he is so obviously biased.

This was a tragedy. But when people decide to live so far out like they were living, these sorts of possibilities are part of the equation.

Rumi

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"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
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wanderwild
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PostMon Dec 03, 2018 3:36 pm 
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olderthanIusedtobe wrote:
Selective outrage?† Is this guy as upset every time a human is killed by a drunk driver, or killed by another human using an object that has 3 letters and can't be mentioned?† I seriously doubt it.†

Exactly. Selfish and narrow-minded. It's like there's this assumption that if you're out hunting in the wilderness that you have removed yourself from all dangers to your life. NOT THE CASE. Danger is everywhere.

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timberghost
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PostTue Dec 04, 2018 11:50 am 
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Why not?
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