[RumiDude]

This is a continuation of the discussion in a TR by AncientAmbler in order to avoid spray in the Trip Reports.

[Ski]

[MyFootHurts]

They'll never reopen these so roads its time for us visitors to find workarounds. Back around June, I rode my electric mountain bike (gasp) up the Dose Rd and then did a 10 mile round trip day hike up the West Fork. Did you know Klapatche Park in MRNP is an easy day hike once you e-bike to the trail head? Carbon River Rd is another good one. But I think a salmon saw me and I hurt its feelings, but such is the price of freedom.

[Randito]

E-bikes and old hard tail mountain bikes seem like a great way to travel old roads too decrepit for motorists. Riding the #56 road from Dingford to the end isn't that much slower than driving it.

[Ski]

[Brian R]

Good points re Carbon River. Agree 100%. Westside Road is another matter. I biked up twice this summer and the NPS has spent what looks like a LOT of money placing a portable steel bridge over Dry Creek, pounding new pilings into the roadbed along Tahoma Creek, and staging tons of riprap and culverts near the old Tahoma Creek Campground site. I've made calls and tried to ascertain whether or not this is in preparation for a reopening, but have not received any answers. I certainly hope MRNP isn't spending what looks like hundreds of thousands of dollars for "administrative access" only. Superintendent Randy King and Wilderness Program Manager Karen Thompson--both pro-hiker, pro access IMO--are both gone now. "Retired." And the 20 year master plan has been on hold now going on three years. In short, except where not physically possible or exorbitantly expensive, the "old" access status quo should be maintained. This includes the Dosewallips.

[Gregory]

The argument that reopening the roads will result in these areas being "trashed' is simply nonsense. It's the little boy crying wolf. It is simply not a credible argument. It has no basis in fact. I would rather be the little boy crying wolf than the Old man spending his retirement from Shucks arguing on the internet. The Hood canal national forest land with road access has been trashed, DNR has taken it away from us because...............hold it .................it has been trashed.Dude you only think you know it all.

[RumiDude]

The argument that taking away access cures people from trashing places is silly. It doesn't work like that. Never has and never will. Rumi

[RumiDude]

Access is indeed important, especially in regards to ONP. There is no road that goes through or even deep into ONP. Instead it basically is ringed by 101 with access spurs like the Dosewallips Rd. These access spurs are the roads at issue. Several of these roads are vulnerable to seasonal weather conditions, i.e. subject to washouts and slides. When they do become damaged, it takes a while before the repairs are made. The ongoing saga of Whiskey Bend and Olympic Hot Springs Roads is an example of that. Dosewallips is an example of delaying repairs has exacerbated the problems and made any potential solution extremely expensive. And every time these access roads are closed it only serves to crowd the remaining access ares and discourage visitation to ONP. In the past, the Elwha offered great access to people of many fitness and experience levels. Now with the road closed at the Park boundary, just getting to the Whiskey Bend or Boulder Creek THs is a 7-8 miles (one-way) road walk. On the Dosewallips the added mileage is similar. And again, those added miles are all road walk and just gets you to the trailheads. And as noted by another, walking on the road is much more stressful on the body than trail hiking, especially with a loaded pack. For people that only have the weekend, these added miles are a real barrier. These added miles discourage use. These added miles crowd other access points. These added road walk miles degrade the experience. These added miles are needless. Rumi

[Brian R]

I suspect that much of the opposition to the Wild Olympics proposal is rooted in the correct belief that giving yet more land to wilderness and/or scenic rivers status will simply result in more restricted access, refusal to repair, and lockouts. When these folks tell us there will be "more recreation opportunities" they really mean more walking of abandoned road grades to get to the old trailhead. The Dosewallips is exhibit A. A big NO on Wild Olympics for Patty Murray and Derek Kilmer.

[Ski]

[cascadetraverser]

Posted a TR from this WE but thought I would comment here as well. My history of this road/trail is a long one as well; my family and I all took our inaugural hike here back in 1973 up to Lake Constance. Talk about an intro! Only my brother (Glenoid, who came up with this hike way back when ) and I have ever hiked/backpacked since, the other 5 who came never stepped out with a backpack again (with a few minor exceptions)! The road was open back then. Of note, A friend of mine some years later had a bad accident on the trail down and I am pretty sure his backpacking partner, who suffered a compound fracture of his leg on the Constance trail, would have died if my friend had not stumbled into the camp (open) and get help to his stranded friend. Since the road washed out, I have to say, I have really enjoyed backpacking this trail and also up to Lake Constance (way less crowded than it used to be) as an all year destination with a great campground to enjoy. Hiking it this weekend, with an eye to what it would take to repair, A fix would be some work. Not being a engineer, but my sense is the big washout at the 1.5 mile mark would be the big job with a major re-routing of the road. Other than that, I don`t think the other minor wash outs would be too hard to fix. As much as I like to hike it, I wouldn`t have a problem with fixing the road, at all, given the potential for better access (which seems to be dwindling) and to benefit local economies.

[Anne Elk]

CT - I can't believe you selected Constance for your first family outing! I've been contemplating all the recent comments and read through the numerous historic threads on the Dose washout. Now feel more informed re the complexity of both a bypass, as well as the amt of work that's required (I guess by law) for an official decommissioning. Everyone on both sides of the issue has made good points to support their POV. Thanks to those who also listed some of the other road closures in ONP/ONF and elsewhere that I was unaware of. (I don't get around enough!) Clearly a pattern here, and one could suppose most of it has to do with funding...our gov't just consistently fails to make our parks/forests a priority, and somehow, we just accept it. If I had to choose, restoration/relocation of the campgrounds on the Elwha should have first priority. The dam removals were an historic, positive event and every opportunity should be taken to do PR & public education re the benefits of dam removal. New campgrounds would further that significantly. Two points supporting re-opening the Dose road concern the historical mission of making the areas accessible "to all", and the extra pressure that's now being put on other areas because the trails to points past the Dose campground are now inaccessible to day hikers. Valid points but I wonder if accessibility and use goals should now be tempered by preservation considerations, and the Park's current maintenance budget. I realize the differences from a wilderness designation. But it seems we're approaching a point of no return with respect to both the land's "carrying capacity" for human use as well as preserving the values that draw people there in the first place. Perhaps the degradation isn't as noticeable unless you've been gone for a decade, as I was, and then go revisit your old favorite haunts. ONP does an excellent job of campground maintenance, if my recent stay at Mora campground was any indication. Not so much at trail destinations. I didn't camp at 2nd Beach b/c of weather, but the conditions there were as awful as described in this WTA trip report. So, back to the Dose. There would have to be a lot more done at this point to make the campground accessible besides putting in the by-pass (see the photo in Double_E's TR of the landslide that's somewhere past the Constance TH). I still like the idea of a limited access road - mostly for bikers/hikers. Fly in two small motorized "somethings" that would run on a seasonal schedule from the far side and could transport people to the CG's (maybe with some kind of cabled device across the washout to ferry visitors' gear to the shuttle (for the equipment heavy car-camper types). Maybe it's not practical but it would be cheaper than other solutions, and sort of a compromise between what we had and what we've got now. It would improve access with a unique alternative that promotes bikes over full vehicle access. That being said, the Forest Service's refusal to repair the (comparatively) small creek washout east of the main washout is outrageous. Does anyone have a recent photo of it that they could post?

[Alpendave]

One thing I really appreciated about the Muscott Flats trailhead is that it didn’t take long to disperse the hikers who used it as a taking off point (West Fork, main fork, Sunnybrook Meadows, Grey Wolf Pass. Really, now, the only truly spectacular thing accessible (unless one has the week off) is Lake Constance and perhaps the waterfall. Only hiked the rd to Muscott Flats once since the washout, and haven’t been to the lake. Just haven’t had the time for it to be worth it. I think people who have the time are going to go to the mountains no matter what. They aren’t going to be deterred by crowds. They’ll just congregate more (sure seems like they do in other areas). I think restoring the road and perhaps establishing a new trail or two might actually mitigate the impact on areas like Mt Townsend and Marmot Pass and a few others.

[Anne Elk]