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Cyclopath
Faster than light
Joined: 20 Mar 2012
Posts: 7717 | TRs | Pics
Location: Seattle |
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Cyclopath
Faster than light
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 Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:58 am |
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| RumiDude wrote: | | Cyclopath wrote: | | There are a lot of mountain bikers who feel like they've been unfairly excluded. It's taken a lot of lobbying and a lot of trail building to get MTB cyclists the access they have. That's what boot up means about having earned the right to his trails. |
That assumes that people on ebikes haven't done any of that, which is a huge assumption.
I have found that most attitudes like this are based on false assumptions such as that. YMMV
Rumi |
Why do you think I'm making assumptions? I've been an avid cyclist my entire life and e-bikes are there biggest shakeup in decades. It's rude and presumptuous of you to assume I haven't been talking to people about my hobby.
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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 11276 | TRs | Pics
Location: Don't move here |
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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
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Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:12 am |
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This boils down to the same type of "reasoning" that has been going on for eons. Dedicated car drivers insisting that all bike riders should have to pay for licenses, since they obviously pay no gas tax or tab fees. Which, I as a part time bike rider have pointed out back to them that I also have a vehicle, or two so I do pay my share of taxes.
Then we could get into the yes, I pay property taxes so how come my part of the county does not have any bike trails or lanes? I'm thinking Lewis County on that one.
It just ain't fair, I guess. Meanwhile, I sit waiting for FedEx to deliver what I hope is my new battery for my e-bike. That will make it more useful for camping away from plug ins. Some folks with large RVs and enough solar panels are able to recharge using an inverter. My 100 watt system would not be enough.
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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Cyclopath
Faster than light
Joined: 20 Mar 2012
Posts: 7717 | TRs | Pics
Location: Seattle |
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Cyclopath
Faster than light
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Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:24 am |
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| treeswarper wrote: | | Dedicated car drivers insisting that all bike riders should have to pay for licenses, since they obviously pay no gas tax or tab fees |
It burns me up that pedestrians don't have to pay a shoe tax to use the sidewalk! 
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Randito
Snarky Member
Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 9512 | TRs | Pics
Location: Bellevue at the moment. |
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Randito
Snarky Member
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Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:54 am |
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| treeswarper wrote: | | Dedicated car drivers insisting that all bike riders should have to pay for licenses, since they obviously pay no gas tax or tab fees. |
Yeah IME those sorts of people don't want to deal with any other vehicles on the road -- not just bikes, but other cars, trucks and buses -- anything that might slow them down.
If we were to "fairly" distribute the cost of building, operating and maintaining roads -- we would use some sort of scheme that incorporated vehicle weight, miles traveled and the driving record of operator. Careless drivers in big SUVs would pay more than careful drivers putting along in a sub compact.
But that would be a pain to administer and intrusive.
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RumiDude
Marmota olympus
Joined: 26 Jul 2009
Posts: 3589 | TRs | Pics
Location: Port Angeles |
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RumiDude
Marmota olympus
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Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:23 pm |
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| Cyclopath wrote: | | RumiDude wrote: | | Cyclopath wrote: | | There are a lot of mountain bikers who feel like they've been unfairly excluded. It's taken a lot of lobbying and a lot of trail building to get MTB cyclists the access they have. That's what boot up means about having earned the right to his trails. |
That assumes that people on ebikes haven't done any of that, which is a huge assumption.
I have found that most attitudes like this are based on false assumptions such as that. YMMV
Rumi |
Why do you think I'm making assumptions? I've been an avid cyclist my entire life and e-bikes are there biggest shakeup in decades. It's rude and presumptuous of you to assume I haven't been talking to people about my hobby. |
Let me expand on what I wrote. which may clear up what each of us is referring to.
#1 I have no doubt that what you say about mtbrs feeling unfairly excluded is true.
#2 I have no doubt that your reading of what boot-up meant by "earned the right to the trails" is in fact the correct reading of his and others' feelings on the subject of e-bikes on trails.
#3 I stand by my statement that it is a huge assumption to claim that e-bike riders have not done any of that or other sorts of things to "earn the right" to use the trails.
#4 The concept of "earned the right" to use the trails is pretty vague and virtually meaningless. That is why I stated in an earlier post "I am not sure how any user group earns the right to use trails." That applies to individuals as well, i.e. that e-biker passing the non e-biker. How does a 14yo earn the right to use trails, regardless of his/her user group? What about people that fit into multiple user groups? "Earning the right" is ill-defined and ultimately ill-serves the discussion regardless of which user group tries to apply it.
#5 I have talked with a lot of mtbrs as well and most of those have never lobbied, given money, or done anything to open up trails to mtbs. Oh, they complain about it but they haven't done anything about it. And that goes doubly for trail building and maintenance. I realize that my experience may be way different from your experience. But neither your nor my experience cancels out the other. And without good scientifically gathered data, it ends up as just a matter of differing experiences.
Rumi
"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
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OwenT
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Joined: 24 May 2014
Posts: 277 | TRs | Pics
Location: Moses Lake |
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OwenT
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Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:36 pm |
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I read a lot of this thread and checked out the volton site. Now I'm very interested in the possibilities and I'd like to get back to the original inquiry that was made over 11 years ago on this thread. From you that have them and any others, are these bikes now, for example, the volton, up for riding up and down mountain dirt roads/possibly trails more than a few miles?
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Tom
Admin
Joined: 15 Dec 2001
Posts: 17851 | TRs | Pics
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Tom
Admin
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Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:46 pm |
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Depends on how steep the road is and how large your battery is. I'd say the bigger issue is a flat tire on a dirt road. I would not take my bike on a trail unless it's roads to trail variety.
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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 11276 | TRs | Pics
Location: Don't move here |
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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
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Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:28 pm |
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I have ridden some nasty roads. I am also frequently adjusting the brakes on my Radmini. It seems to have plenty of power to go on nasty roads in the summer. On a cold day, the battery seems to use power faster. I still have never run it down.
There are so many brands of ebikes out there. I see even Walmart has them online.
Right now, it sits unused as all but the main roads are icy and slick.
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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Tom
Admin
Joined: 15 Dec 2001
Posts: 17851 | TRs | Pics
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Tom
Admin
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Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:01 pm |
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Yes, there are lots of garbage ebikes out there, mostly crappy rear hub bikes. I would not recommend a rear hub. Rear hub is OK if you want an inexpensive daily commuter and don't need to conquer hills at lower speed. Mid-drive is where it's at if you want low end torque since it uses the bike's gearing.
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MyFootHurts
Huge Member
Joined: 22 Nov 2011
Posts: 912 | TRs | Pics
Location: Kekistan |
| OwenT wrote: | | I read a lot of this thread and checked out the volton site. Now I'm very interested in the possibilities and I'd like to get back to the original inquiry that was made over 11 years ago on this thread. From you that have them and any others, are these bikes now, for example, the volton, up for riding up and down mountain dirt roads/possibly trails more than a few miles? |
Entirely depends on your weight, steepness of the road etc.
I have a Rad Rover and I weigh about 220 lbs (plus gear, water etc).
I usually carry an extra battery on long trips too (7 more lbs).
I can just barely make it up the John Wayne Trail from Rattlesnake Lake to the tunnel and back down again on one fully charged battery. (~34 miles round trip, coasting almost the whole way down)
On the other hand I barely it made the ~5 miles up South Mountain in the Olympics with one battery.
Some places the road was so steep I had to get off the bike and push. If my speed falls below about 7 mph on the highest powerlevel of 750 Watts the motor overheats. If it gets too hot it automatically shuts off as a safety measure. It shut off twice on that trip.
Most bicyclists aren't build like a linebacker like me. If you're in the 170lbs range like most puny humans you'll probably cruise effortlessly up hills I have to struggle with.
One last thing about e-bikes: Bring a tire repair kit and know how to use it and how to disassemble/reassemble the bike. You don't want to push a 60lbs e-bike 20 miles back to the car.
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Backpacker Joe
Blind Hiker
Joined: 16 Dec 2001
Posts: 23956 | TRs | Pics
Location: Cle Elum |
While its not an "E" bike I think Ill get one of these:
http://www.ubcobikes.com/us/
Two wheel drive, 75 mile range, 30 mph. Seems to be pretty dang powerful...
"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."
— Abraham Lincoln
"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."
— Abraham Lincoln
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Randito
Snarky Member
Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 9512 | TRs | Pics
Location: Bellevue at the moment. |
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Randito
Snarky Member
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Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:38 pm |
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| Backpacker Joe wrote: | | While its not an "E" bike I think Ill get one of these:
http://www.ubcobikes.com/us/
Two wheel drive, 75 mile range, 30 mph. Seems to be pretty dang powerful... |
That's a very interesting rig, but became of its power rating it does not fit the definition of an "ebike" so in terms of where you can legally ride it -- it's about the same as a "mini-bike" with a more powerful briggs-and-stratton motor that costs 10x less.
But legal or not tooling on the Palouse-Cascades trail and other "open to mtbs and ebikes" trails on the UBCO you'll get far less stinkeye than on an infernal combustion engine bike -- at least if you check your speed to 5-10mph while passing.
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Tom
Admin
Joined: 15 Dec 2001
Posts: 17851 | TRs | Pics
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Tom
Admin
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Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:11 am |
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$7K and ~140 pounds? How you going to transport it to wherever you plan to ride? Seems like a waste of $7K to me.
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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 11276 | TRs | Pics
Location: Don't move here |
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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
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Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:21 pm |
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I am finding that "battery range" cannot be accurately predicted. I rode eight miles yesterday and about a mile was in mud and slush. I did not recharge the battery. Took off today, battled a headwind for much of the ride and after 6 miles, I have only two bars showing. It was 45 degrees out and a bit of a wind was blowing. There were no big hills on either day.
I like to pedal but perhaps part of the rundown was because I haven't ridden much lately so was using a higher PAS level? Dunno, but I guess my point is that I can't pin down a range for a battery when people ask and would not rely on the mileage stated in an ad.
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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RumiDude
Marmota olympus
Joined: 26 Jul 2009
Posts: 3589 | TRs | Pics
Location: Port Angeles |
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RumiDude
Marmota olympus
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Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:58 pm |
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I am looking hard at the RadCity bike, which would really suit my needs. I think I could use it on logging roads around the Olympic Peninsula, though primarily I want it to use around town. I like that fenders and a rear rack comes with the price. Price is an important part of the equation, but reliability is also important. I have seen several RadRovers in town as well.
The local bike shop is a Specialized dealer and has some very nice Specialized e-bikes. They all have the motor at the crank, whereas the Rad Cycles have a rear hub motor. Unfortunately the Specialized is way more expensive.
Rumi
"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
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