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Guidelines for posting in a dog thread
You shall make no more than 1 post in a dog thread unless you have posted or replied to a trip report (or photo) since your last visit. Thanking someone for their contribution goes a long way to building and fostering a sense of community!
Wiki summmary last edited by Tom on Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:01 pm (this post can be edited by any member)
Wiki summmary last edited by Tom on Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:01 pm (this post can be edited by any member)
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Pahoehoe Member
Joined: 12 Oct 2017 Posts: 563 | TRs | Pics
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Pahoehoe
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Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:41 pm
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Anne Elk wrote: | Pahoehoe wrote: | You are all looking at this through your lens of privilege. |
That's the current favorite way to be dismissive of anyone and anything, and shuts down dialogue. There isn't a person alive who isn't looking at things through the lens of their own upbringing. Some of the lenses are more distorted than others; regardless of their history and position in the social pecking order. |
It also shuts down conversation to accuse people of throwing out the victim card or telling them to lighten up.
Once I witnessed a upper middle class white women tell someone that was grieving the loss of their only close relative, struggling with mental illness and facing potential homelessness that EVERYONE had challenges. She was super stressed out because her landscaping project she hired someone to do for her was going over budget, so she understood. She had problems, too.
Yes. Everyone does. Some people fear for their safety and ability to feed and shelter themselves almost never and some nearly every second....
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Pahoehoe Member
Joined: 12 Oct 2017 Posts: 563 | TRs | Pics
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Pahoehoe
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Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:51 pm
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Chief Joseph wrote: | Besides, who decides what is derogatory and what is not? I think it's a personal choice to be offended by a simple term...or not. To become extremely angry or just somewhat annoyed. |
It seems like most of the time the person who is being asked to consider their language gets the most offended...
"Oh hey! I heard you got married! How's the new Squaw?"
"Hey man, that word is offensive to my culture. Could you not say it?"
Do you reply with...
"Wth! Lighten up snowflake! God! People are so sensitive these days!"
Or..
"Oh. I'm sorry. I didnt know that. Can you explain why?"
I guess it depends how you want the people around you to feel and how much you value the persons friendship.
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Anne Elk BrontosaurusTheorist
Joined: 07 Sep 2018 Posts: 2410 | TRs | Pics Location: Seattle |
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Anne Elk
BrontosaurusTheorist
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Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:34 am
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Pahoehoe wrote: | It also shuts down conversation to accuse people of throwing out the victim card |
Sure. Except sometimes that is what's going on, and people need to be held responsible for their own "stuff". I have a relative with that problem, and have seen it in the odd co-worker or two over the years.
But let's look back at what started this diversion to begin with. Chico made a post about dogs and used a seemingly innocuous phrase that CambaJamba considers an insulting, culturally loaded pejorative. Why didn't C-J just PM Chico and have a dialog about it off thread and straighten things out, just as you suggested: ""Hey man, that <phrase> is offensive to my culture. Could you not say it?" Instead, seemingly apropos of nothing, CJ goes off on Chico publicly, no explanation, and the community does a collective "HUH"? Kinda like maybe CJ wanted to stir up some controversy so we could all be collectively shamed/blamed:
Quote: | I'm just a person trying to live my life without being reminded constantly that I'm perceived as a second class citizen by a large portion of our population - even if they themselves don't realize they see it that way...In so many ways I don't have time to educate on, it reminds me that what could have been my proud heritage is instead a source of constant misunderstanding and ridicule...This forum tolerates hate speech and consists of loud voices that condone it explicitly. |
..."even if they themselves don't realize they see it that way." With all due respect, that's pure projection. Misunderstanding, even ignorance, has no malice behind it. It doesn't serve CJ's wish nor further collective understanding to lash out at the same volume no matter the offense, especially if unintentional. I don't believe our moderators tolerate hate speech, and from what I've seen since joining this forum, "loud voices that condone it" are shut off.
"There are yahoos out there. It’s why we can’t have nice things." - Tom Mahood
"There are yahoos out there. It’s why we can’t have nice things." - Tom Mahood
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Pahoehoe Member
Joined: 12 Oct 2017 Posts: 563 | TRs | Pics
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Pahoehoe
Member
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Sat Jan 26, 2019 5:08 am
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Anne Elk wrote: | Quote: | I'm just a person trying to live my life without being reminded constantly that I'm perceived as a second class citizen by a large portion of our population - even if they themselves don't realize they see it that way...In so many ways I don't have time to educate on, it reminds me that what could have been my proud heritage is instead a source of constant misunderstanding and ridicule...This forum tolerates hate speech and consists of loud voices that condone it explicitly. |
..."even if they themselves don't realize they see it that way." With all due respect, that's pure projection. Misunderstanding, even ignorance, has no malice behind it. It doesn't serve CJ's wish nor further collective understanding to lash out at the same volume no matter the offense, especially if unintentional. I don't believe our moderators tolerate hate speech, and from what I've seen since joining this forum, "loud voices that condone it" are shut off |
If you have never been marginalized, if you have never experienced "micro aggressions" (and I hate that word, but there isnt a better one) you may not understand but it is devastating to constantly be the punch line of a joke.
Cambajamba could have done better explaining their feelings on many moons but he they were met with defensiveness pretty quick, too.
cambajamba wrote: | Stop saying "many moons," it isn't cute and I don't have patience for it anymore. |
brewermd wrote: | I am confused by your statement and can't tell if you are trying to be funny. I have been following this thread and went back through the four pages and there was one...ONE.."many many moons". Is this an ongoing problem I am unaware of? |
MtnGoat wrote: | Idiom police out to enforce their religion's blasphemy code. And dead serious about it. |
cambajamba wrote: | Yes, I am policing your offensive remarks. Using terms you think are innocuous but are actually offensive is pretty natural and human. I kept saying "handicapped parking" until someone with a brain corrected me. We can all change for the better, and not everyone telling you to change is a personal attack or an attack on your politics. It's not a religion to want to be accommodating and understanding of other people and their lives. The fact that you can't see that, that you literally don't believe you should have to consider your impacts on others is troubling. The fact that that attitude seems to be pervasive these days is even worse. Do you realize that what you are saying is "I am not responsible for anything I cause." Is that lack of responsibility something you're striving for? Working on? Is that growth to you?
I'll grow patience if you can grow some empathy.
Also don't forget who's land you're on. |
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Anne Elk BrontosaurusTheorist
Joined: 07 Sep 2018 Posts: 2410 | TRs | Pics Location: Seattle |
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Anne Elk
BrontosaurusTheorist
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Sat Jan 26, 2019 8:26 am
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"...it is devastating to constantly be the punch line of a joke. "
Sorry that you're not following my point. Chico was not intending that toward C-J at all. If C-J wants to knee-jerk at the same intensity when nothing of the sort was intended, it does nothing to undo the past, does nothing to advance understandings, and just grows his/her ulcer. I know some First Nations people who don't seem to have that problem (ie, seeing a slur around every corner and a racist behind every funny look from a non-native.) I refer you back to neek's post (pg 7, I believe).
More to the point: In their own words: 12 Native Americans talk ...; so: extremely divergent native views re what's offensive.
And I'm not going to debate with you any more. I like the way Shaw put it, "Don't mud wrestle with pigs. You both get dirty, and the pig likes it." And just to clarify, I'm not calling you names. I'm done with this muddy thread.
"There are yahoos out there. It’s why we can’t have nice things." - Tom Mahood
"There are yahoos out there. It’s why we can’t have nice things." - Tom Mahood
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Pahoehoe Member
Joined: 12 Oct 2017 Posts: 563 | TRs | Pics
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Pahoehoe
Member
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Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:09 am
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Anne Elk wrote: | "...it is devastating to constantly be the punch line of a joke. "
Sorry that you're not following my point. Chico was not intending that toward C-J at all. If C-J wants to knee-jerk at the same intensity when nothing of the sort was intended, it does nothing to undo the past, does nothing to advance understandings, and just grows his/her ulcer. I know some First Nations people who don't seem to have that problem (ie, seeing a slur around every corner and a racist behind every funny look from a non-native.) I refer you back to neek's post (pg 7, I believe).
And I'm not going to debate with you any more. I like the way Shaw put it, "Don't mud wrestle with pigs. You both get dirty, and the pig likes it." And just to clarify, I'm not calling you names. I'm done with this muddy thread. |
Cambajamba felt bad due to the use of "many moons" and for an understandable reason, regardless of intent.
If I hit someone with my car it doesnt matter if I meant to or not. I still hit them.
You either care, apologize and be more careful in the future, or you don't.
What you choose to do speaks a lot about "you".
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neek Member
Joined: 12 Sep 2011 Posts: 2329 | TRs | Pics Location: Seattle, WA |
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neek
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Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:14 am
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Pahoehoe wrote: | Tell this to ... |
I appreciate this point. You don't tell the victim of abuse or cultural marginalization to shut up and go in a corner and meditate. Nor do you necessarily encourage someone deeply disturbed, depressed, or suicidal to peer deeply inside their own mind. But to someone who runs away when the resident intellectual bully says "grow some", I think the advice might apply. (Not to ignore the history of discourse that preceded this thread--it's not like this is the first time there was conflict.)
Pahoehoe wrote: | You are all looking at this through your lens of privilege |
It is hard for anyone living in the US to not look through this lens, as I've pointed out before. Even the homeless here have it much better than certain populations around the world. People should be aware of their privilege, for sure, but not necessary shamed for it.
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Pahoehoe Member
Joined: 12 Oct 2017 Posts: 563 | TRs | Pics
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Pahoehoe
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Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:23 am
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I never said someone should be ashamed on their privilege. I said they were seeing the world through it.
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Backpacker Joe Blind Hiker
Joined: 16 Dec 2001 Posts: 23956 | TRs | Pics Location: Cle Elum |
This isnt rocket science! If youre going to take a dog out and be around people control your dog! Pretty simple to me.
"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."
— Abraham Lincoln
"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."
— Abraham Lincoln
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Brushwork Food truck
Joined: 18 Aug 2018 Posts: 508 | TRs | Pics Location: Washington |
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Brushwork
Food truck
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Sat Jan 26, 2019 8:35 pm
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Backpacker Joe wrote: | This isnt rocket science! If youre going to take a dog out and be around people control your dog! Pretty simple to me. |
Yes, please!
Today I was headed up toward West Tiger 2. Suddenly I realized there was a dog right behind me. I hadn't heard a thing and it rattled me. If I'd been on steeper terrain I could have easily fallen. When the owner showed up I asked him to please not let his dog run up behind people like that. He blew me off.
Out of 15- 20 dogs, maybe 3 were leashed.
What is it with people that think it's ok to let your dog run up to strangers? Especially from behind? And then they act like you don't have a right to complain. Really!
When I grow up I wanna play.
When I grow up I wanna play.
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Badger Member
Joined: 01 Aug 2006 Posts: 1172 | TRs | Pics Location: Alki Beach, Washington |
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Badger
Member
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Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:22 pm
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I typically do not post to dog threads since this subject is close to me and tends to get my ire up. Been a dog owner the majority of my life. They are great companions/friends/family members and I love many of the pooches on the trail. But...
/r
As someone who has had their back turned into hamburger thanks to an idiotic irresponsible a-hole's uncontrolled pit bull I can say this - control your dog. Period. Or someone else will.
If you truly love your pet- and actually care about other folks besides yourself, then think long and hard about your decision to let them go free range.
Again I love meeting peoples pooches on the trail- in a controlled situation. I even bring treats for them. But I will not tolerate being mauled.
/r_off
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Chief Joseph Member
Joined: 10 Nov 2007 Posts: 7676 | TRs | Pics Location: Verlot-Priest Lake |
Badger wrote: | As someone who has had their back turned into hamburger thanks to an idiotic irresponsible a-hole's uncontrolled pit bull I can say this - control your dog. Period. Or someone else will. |
Careful, someone earlier in the thread said that they were offended by the term "Pit Bull" and that we should refer to them as some long winded term like, "Staffordshire Terrier"....but that was a few moons ago, I think before the Super-Blood-Wolf-Moon.
Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
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CC cascade curmudgeon
Joined: 13 Sep 2006 Posts: 647 | TRs | Pics
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CC
cascade curmudgeon
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Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:47 pm
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neek wrote: | the resident intellectual |
It's only January, but this is definitely a candidate for funniest satirical post of the year.
First your legs go, then you lose your reflexes, then you lose your friends. Willy Pep
First your legs go, then you lose your reflexes, then you lose your friends. Willy Pep
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