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Vertec
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PostThu Feb 07, 2019 8:25 pm 
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DadFly wrote:
As stated in so many other threads here, I will continue to keep my bear spray handy. Proven to work more often that guns.

Please do so, but....

No proof exists Bear spray is more effective at deterring mountain lion attacks than any other method.  Incidents of using bear spray to stop Mountain lion charges have been documented, but these incidents do not amount to any such proof.

There is good evidence Bear spray is effective for Bears.  It's always a good first choice for Bears when conditions allow.  Each can of Bear spray has an expiration date after which it can be put to good use by practice firing.  I recommending you try test firing into a 20+ MPH head wind and let us know your observations eek.gif.  Please video record your test efforts and post a link here for our viewing pleasure.

A comparative analysis using head/profile photos of both species will yield the reason bear spray is more effective on bears than cougars.  Look very closely at the length of each animal's snout.  Upon close examination you might notice the bear snout is longer than a cougar snout.  This might lead you to the conclusion that many more olfactory receptors fit in the bear snout.  Using this discovery along with your experience test firing an expired can as instructed in the previous paragraph, you will hopefully come to the correct conclusion:  Bear spray has less of an olfactory affect on cougars than bears.  Or you can just re-read the can and take note of the word 'bear'.

Bears react like a "kick in the snout" to even the slightest whiff of bear spray.

A cougar can charge 20+ feet through a dense stream of bear spray before its eyes start burning enough for the pain to even 'register' (being cats, they are capable of intense focus).  But fighting animals usually react to pain with increased adrenaline and aggression, so you might be in for a heck of a battle if it gets to you, especially as it returns all the bear spray you deposited in its fur.

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Vertec
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PostThu Feb 07, 2019 9:50 pm 
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More information supporting my earlier posts:

http://thieroutdoors.com/black-bear-vs-mountain-lion/

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Chief Joseph
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PostThu Feb 07, 2019 9:57 pm 
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Saw fresh cougar tracks on the snowmobile trail here in Idaho on the way back the way I came.

Looked pretty big, probably should pack in case I break down and half to walk.  eek.gif

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DadFly
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PostFri Feb 08, 2019 4:23 pm 
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Someone posted a video of a lion charging and getting sprayed. It turned and ran immediately.
Most critters don't like bear spray at all and it seems sensless to suggest mountain lions are impervious to the stuff.
But we are all entitled to our opinions.

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Vertec
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PostFri Feb 08, 2019 6:50 pm 
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DadFly wrote:
Someone posted a video of a lion charging and getting sprayed. It turned and ran immediately.
Most critters don't like bear spray at all and it seems sensless to suggest mountain lions are impervious to the stuff.
But we are all entitled to our opinions.

Your original post claimed bear spray is: "Proven to work more often tha...".
Thanks for clarifying that is just your opinion.  No such proof exists.

I never claimed mountain lions are impervious to it.  My point is/was: Bear spray has less of an olfactory affect on cougars than bears.

I've seen the full/uncut video and it certainly had an effect, but the mountain lion made it from the tree line to edge of the road before turning around.  It took a continuous 2 second spray to deter the attack, and the jogger had to fire another burst.

Compare with:

The bears in this video react/retreat immediately, other videos demonstrate similar responses.  Although letting a bear get *that* close before deployment is risky.

I carry bear spray and certainly recommend others also do so.  But it's important to understand how to use it and what its limitations are.

And: We are all entitled to carry whatever we believe is most suitable to protect our own personal safety.

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Vertec
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PostFri Feb 08, 2019 10:37 pm 
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Sky Hiker wrote:
But its ok Vertec as I stated earlier and you neglected to read Jay Inslee has our back so no worries!!

Ok Sky, I get it  cool.gif .  I responded to your other comment about frequency.

I operate out there the full knowledge that no one has my back.  It is both my right, and my responsibility to protect myself.  Responsible self sufficiency also enables effective stewardship.

There are many factors which contribute to the likelihood of encountering danger (i.e. wildlife management policy) that are beyond our individual control.  Maintaining some level of awareness of such factors is never a bad idea.  But I've made the choice to spend the bulk of my effort on making sure I can effectively mitigate the threats I possibly may encounter.

As I've said in this forum before:  We live in an area of amazing beauty, but it can also be very dangerous therefore it requires knowledge, diligence, and respect.  Harming wildlife in self-defense situation is a terrible situation.  But the May 2018 incident involved a cougar that was emaciated.  Such animals are generally not successful hunters of their normal food source, and the vast majority of them succumb to starvation, which is considered a natural outcome.  "Successful" wildlife generally does not pose a threat to humans and in fact avoidance of humans is a skill that contributes to success.  And regardless of current physical condition, any predator that directs predatory behavior towards a human is already on a bad 'trajectory' in life.

The first time I saw this video I knew what the outcome was going to be at 0:35, but the situation lasted for 10 minutes before it came to the conclusion I expected:

There is no way to know if bear spray would have been effective in this encounter.  But even if it was used successfully, there is no way to know if that animal would have made a future attempt on another human.  Cougars get kicked in the face hunting elk all the time, but such outcomes do NOT stop them from hunting elk - they learn from past failures and become better hunters.  AND: large cats are known to kill other predators that 'compete' for their same prey.

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DadFly
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PostSat Feb 09, 2019 7:55 am 
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Most people will be able to spray a broad stroke of spray that makes contact with the animal.
Not that many are going to be able to hit a charging animal with what will likely have to be one shot.
You seem to want to win an arguement. You win. Peace.

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Sky Hiker
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PostSat Feb 09, 2019 7:58 am 
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It's not a matter of winning anything. Just being prepared peace.
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timberghost
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PostSat Feb 09, 2019 8:34 am 
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Looks like Deadfly and Vertec win as Sky bows out gracefully.. smile.gif  smile.gif
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pcg
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PostSat Feb 09, 2019 9:19 am 
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DadFly wrote:
Not that many are going to be able to hit a charging animal with what will likely have to be one shot.

One of the videos above shows one of the "Not that many" who succeeded, so we have at least anecdotal evidence that one person was able to protect themselves from a cougar attack with bear spray.

Is there any anecdotal evidence of anyone ever NOT being able to stop a cougar attack with bear spray? i.e. A person was found dead from a cougar attack and an empty can of bear spray was found on the ground nearby, or "I sprayed the cat with bear spray, but he kept coming. Luckily I was able to escape because..."

I'd be curious to hear about the instances where it's failed to work.
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Vertec
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PostSat Feb 09, 2019 9:37 am 
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DadFly wrote:
Most people will be able to spray a broad stroke of spray that makes contact with the animal.
Not that many are going to be able to hit a charging animal with what will likely have to be one shot.
You seem to want to win an arguement. You win. Peace.

I see a lot of people carrying bear spray with the zip tie used to secure the safety still attached  eek.gif.
Some people can take down mountain lions with their 'bear' hands  wink.gif

Yes, multiple shots/sprays may be required.  Competence is the responsibility of the user.
You seem to want to continue spewing what you think other people are, or are not going to be able to do.  How very strange.

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Tom
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PostSat Feb 09, 2019 10:22 am 
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I'll still be opting for my camp pillow and other luxury items in my pack.
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joker
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PostSat Feb 09, 2019 10:59 am 
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Tom wrote:
I'll still be opting for my camp pillow and other luxury items in my pack.

Me too (though I love how small, light, and  comfy the  SeaToSummit inflatable pillows are!!).
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Brushwork
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PostSat Feb 09, 2019 1:05 pm 
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We'll see, my pack is already too heavy with good stuff so I don't have room for the pillow .... I have to have my wool skirt, comfy camp slippers, stylish cape with hood, loppers, saw, fresh vegetables, frozen meatballs, cookies, chocolate, alcohol (can't forget that) ..besides the normal stuff.....

Whew, get's me tired just thinking about it.  Or maybe it was shoveling snow.

Yea, I have to leave the pillow and bear spray at home.

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Eric Hansen
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PostThu Feb 14, 2019 3:46 pm 
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https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/14/us/mountain-lion-attack-colorado-runner/index.html

CNN article includes vid of survivor giving blow by blow description of the incident
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