Forum Index > Trail Talk > Sidehilling on hard snow with boots
Previous :: Next Topic  
Author Message
anonwums
Member
Member


Joined: 04 Feb 2015
Posts: 21 | TRs

anonwums
  Top

Member
PostMon Apr 08, 2019 11:39 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Technique question:

How do people sidehill in boots + crampons on hard snow? I understand that if the snow is softish, you can kick steps which I've done successfully many times. But what do you do when the snow is quite hard, sometimes so hard that you can barely get the spike of the axe into? Obviously, you'd use crampons in that setting.

I've tried it using the standard kicking steps method, but my ankles get super slanted that I sometimes get off balance if I try to keep all of the points in. My uphill leg sometimes get quite bent, making it quite exhausting and also hard to move without getting a bit off balance too.

I'm thinking of slopes like this one. In that picture, the snow is obviously softer than what I'm talking about.

All of the videos I've watched show ascent/descent with crampons. None of them explain sidehilling.
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
iron
getting old



Joined: 10 Aug 2008
Posts: 6388 | TRs
Location: kenmore
iron
  Top

getting old
PostMon Apr 08, 2019 12:07 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
when snow is that hard, it's 95% of the time late season which means large suncups are everywhere. find the flat portion of the suncup with each step and you're good to go. for truly steep, scary stuff, you're front-pointing anyway.

--------------
man, you go through life, you try to be nice to people, you struggle to resist the urge to punch 'em in the face, and for what?

--- moe sizlack
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
anonwums
Member
Member


Joined: 04 Feb 2015
Posts: 21 | TRs

anonwums
  Top

Member
PostMon Apr 08, 2019 12:42 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
I've definitely traversed slopes where there were no suncups. How do you sidehill using front pointing? Lean into the slope and dagger your axe and slowly move sideways?
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
iron
getting old



Joined: 10 Aug 2008
Posts: 6388 | TRs
Location: kenmore
iron
  Top

getting old
PostMon Apr 08, 2019 12:43 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
yep.

wear steel pons if you're worried.

--------------
man, you go through life, you try to be nice to people, you struggle to resist the urge to punch 'em in the face, and for what?

--- moe sizlack
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
iron
getting old



Joined: 10 Aug 2008
Posts: 6388 | TRs
Location: kenmore
iron
  Top

getting old
PostMon Apr 08, 2019 12:47 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
or just jump and hope
http://www.nwhikers.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7993811&highlight=overcoat#&pid=4e22245c21c1f3635c46afb315013ab4

--------------
man, you go through life, you try to be nice to people, you struggle to resist the urge to punch 'em in the face, and for what?

--- moe sizlack
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
williswall
seeking tailwind



Joined: 30 Sep 2007
Posts: 1640 | TRs
Location: Bellevue, WA
williswall
  Top

seeking tailwind
PostMon Apr 08, 2019 1:20 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
If the snow is that hard, you probably won't be able to arrest....I'd stay off it and go another day. Of course, if you must go, then you can chop steps.

--------------
"You run with me, not the other way around. (Cassie re races)

williswall.com
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
RandyHiker
Snarky Member



Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 6568 | TRs
Location: Bellevue at the moment.
RandyHiker
  Top

Snarky Member
PostMon Apr 08, 2019 4:17 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
https://www.climbing.com/skills/french-technique/
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
Jeff
Ramen Elitist



Joined: 18 Aug 2008
Posts: 2889 | TRs
Location: Someone get me out of Everett, WA
Jeff
  Top

Ramen Elitist
PostMon Apr 08, 2019 4:47 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
You can flat foot, but it's tedious. I edge with one foot and flat with the other. Although there are almost always minor suncups so sometimes you don't even need crampons.
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
anonwums
Member
Member


Joined: 04 Feb 2015
Posts: 21 | TRs

anonwums
  Top

Member
PostMon Apr 08, 2019 4:57 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
You edge in crampons? I always learned not to do that. Which foot edges in? I imagine the uphill one.
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
iron
getting old



Joined: 10 Aug 2008
Posts: 6388 | TRs
Location: kenmore
iron
  Top

getting old
PostMon Apr 08, 2019 5:00 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
both feet can edge. top is easier due to angles and foot height relative to snow. you just need a few teeth in a little bit to make life happy.

--------------
man, you go through life, you try to be nice to people, you struggle to resist the urge to punch 'em in the face, and for what?

--- moe sizlack
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
Cougar
Member
Member


Joined: 03 Jun 2004
Posts: 6 | TRs
Location: Buckley
Cougar
  Top

Member
PostMon Apr 15, 2019 12:08 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Yes you can edge with both feet using just the inside points.  If the slope is really steep and icey being roped up is a safe way to go since it would be tough to self arrest in those conditions very quick. I wouldn't recommend going it alone in that terrain though I have in my distant past and somehow managed to live to tell about it.

Another way which is an almost lost art today is to chop steps with the adze on your use axe.  That's what it's there for.  It's kind of tough with the modern shorties everybody uses now and it's slow but better safe than sorry in this case.   biggrin.gif
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
RandyHiker
Snarky Member



Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 6568 | TRs
Location: Bellevue at the moment.
RandyHiker
  Top

Snarky Member
PostMon Apr 15, 2019 7:41 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Cougar wrote:
If the slope is really steep and icey being roped up is a safe way to go since it would be tough to self arrest in those conditions very quick

Rope alone does nothing-- numerous parties on Mt Hood have "dental flossed" the Pearly Gates when a rope team of three has had a member slip.

If you rope up, setup anchors and effective belays --otherwise IMHO you are putting everyone at risk if one person slips.

Arresting a fall on steep snow is very different from arresting a crevasse fall -- where friction from the rope cutting into the edge of the crevasse provides significant help.
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
graywolf
Member
Member


Joined: 03 Feb 2005
Posts: 585 | TRs
Location: Poulsbo
graywolf
  Top

Member
PostMon Apr 15, 2019 8:04 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
RandyHiker wrote:
https://www.climbing.com/skills/french-technique/

This is how I learned to climb.

--------------
The only easy day was yesterday...
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
graywolf
Member
Member


Joined: 03 Feb 2005
Posts: 585 | TRs
Location: Poulsbo
graywolf
  Top

Member
PostMon Apr 15, 2019 8:05 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Cougar wrote:
Another way which is an almost lost art today is to chop steps with the adze on your use axe. That's what it's there for. It's kind of tough with the modern shorties everybody uses now and it's slow but better safe than sorry in this case. biggrin.gif

Which is why both of my ice axes are 70cm.  This length is also perfect for me for the French climbing technique that Randy referred to.

--------------
The only easy day was yesterday...
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
  Display:     All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Forum Index > Trail Talk > Sidehilling on hard snow with boots
  Happy Birthday uproar!
Jump to:   
Search this topic:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
   Use Disclaimer Powered by phpBB Privacy Policy