Previous :: Next Topic |
Author |
Message |
anonwums Member


Joined: 04 Feb 2015 Posts: 21 | TRs
|
Technique question:
How do people sidehill in boots + crampons on hard snow? I understand that if the snow is softish, you can kick steps which I've done successfully many times. But what do you do when the snow is quite hard, sometimes so hard that you can barely get the spike of the axe into? Obviously, you'd use crampons in that setting.
I've tried it using the standard kicking steps method, but my ankles get super slanted that I sometimes get off balance if I try to keep all of the points in. My uphill leg sometimes get quite bent, making it quite exhausting and also hard to move without getting a bit off balance too.
I'm thinking of slopes like this one. In that picture, the snow is obviously softer than what I'm talking about.
All of the videos I've watched show ascent/descent with crampons. None of them explain sidehilling. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
iron getting old


Joined: 10 Aug 2008 Posts: 6421 | TRs Location: kenmore
|
when snow is that hard, it's 95% of the time late season which means large suncups are everywhere. find the flat portion of the suncup with each step and you're good to go. for truly steep, scary stuff, you're front-pointing anyway.
-------------- man, you go through life, you try to be nice to people, you struggle to resist the urge to punch 'em in the face, and for what?
--- moe sizlack |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
anonwums Member


Joined: 04 Feb 2015 Posts: 21 | TRs
|
I've definitely traversed slopes where there were no suncups. How do you sidehill using front pointing? Lean into the slope and dagger your axe and slowly move sideways? |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
iron getting old


Joined: 10 Aug 2008 Posts: 6421 | TRs Location: kenmore
|
yep.
wear steel pons if you're worried.
-------------- man, you go through life, you try to be nice to people, you struggle to resist the urge to punch 'em in the face, and for what?
--- moe sizlack |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
iron getting old


Joined: 10 Aug 2008 Posts: 6421 | TRs Location: kenmore
|
|
Back to top |
|
 |
williswall seeking tailwind


Joined: 30 Sep 2007 Posts: 1659 | TRs Location: Bellevue, WA
|
If the snow is that hard, you probably won't be able to arrest....I'd stay off it and go another day. Of course, if you must go, then you can chop steps.
-------------- "You run with me, not the other way around.” (Cassie re races)
williswall.com |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
RandyHiker Snarky Member


Joined: 27 Jul 2008 Posts: 6698 | TRs Location: Bellevue at the moment.
|
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Jeff Ramen Elitist


Joined: 18 Aug 2008 Posts: 2894 | TRs Location: Someone get me out of Everett, WA
|
You can flat foot, but it's tedious. I edge with one foot and flat with the other. Although there are almost always minor suncups so sometimes you don't even need crampons. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
anonwums Member


Joined: 04 Feb 2015 Posts: 21 | TRs
|
You edge in crampons? I always learned not to do that. Which foot edges in? I imagine the uphill one. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
iron getting old


Joined: 10 Aug 2008 Posts: 6421 | TRs Location: kenmore
|
both feet can edge. top is easier due to angles and foot height relative to snow. you just need a few teeth in a little bit to make life happy.
-------------- man, you go through life, you try to be nice to people, you struggle to resist the urge to punch 'em in the face, and for what?
--- moe sizlack |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Cougar Member


Joined: 03 Jun 2004 Posts: 6 | TRs Location: Buckley
|
Yes you can edge with both feet using just the inside points. If the slope is really steep and icey being roped up is a safe way to go since it would be tough to self arrest in those conditions very quick. I wouldn't recommend going it alone in that terrain though I have in my distant past and somehow managed to live to tell about it.
Another way which is an almost lost art today is to chop steps with the adze on your use axe. That's what it's there for. It's kind of tough with the modern shorties everybody uses now and it's slow but better safe than sorry in this case.  |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
RandyHiker Snarky Member


Joined: 27 Jul 2008 Posts: 6698 | TRs Location: Bellevue at the moment.
|
Cougar wrote: |
If the slope is really steep and icey being roped up is a safe way to go since it would be tough to self arrest in those conditions very quick |
Rope alone does nothing-- numerous parties on Mt Hood have "dental flossed" the Pearly Gates when a rope team of three has had a member slip.
If you rope up, setup anchors and effective belays --otherwise IMHO you are putting everyone at risk if one person slips.
Arresting a fall on steep snow is very different from arresting a crevasse fall -- where friction from the rope cutting into the edge of the crevasse provides significant help. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
graywolf Member


Joined: 03 Feb 2005 Posts: 587 | TRs Location: Sequim
|
RandyHiker wrote: |
https://www.climbing.com/skills/french-technique/ |
This is how I learned to climb.
-------------- The only easy day was yesterday... |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
graywolf Member


Joined: 03 Feb 2005 Posts: 587 | TRs Location: Sequim
|
Cougar wrote: |
Another way which is an almost lost art today is to chop steps with the adze on your use axe. That's what it's there for. It's kind of tough with the modern shorties everybody uses now and it's slow but better safe than sorry in this case.  |
Which is why both of my ice axes are 70cm. This length is also perfect for me for the French climbing technique that Randy referred to.
-------------- The only easy day was yesterday... |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
|