[anonwums]

Technique question:

How do people sidehill in boots + crampons on hard snow? I understand that if the snow is softish, you can kick steps which I've done successfully many times. But what do you do when the snow is quite hard, sometimes so hard that you can barely get the spike of the axe into? Obviously, you'd use crampons in that setting.

I've tried it using the standard kicking steps method, but my ankles get super slanted that I sometimes get off balance if I try to keep all of the points in. My uphill leg sometimes get quite bent, making it quite exhausting and also hard to move without getting a bit off balance too.

I'm thinking of slopes like this one. In that picture, the snow is obviously softer than what I'm talking about.

All of the videos I've watched show ascent/descent with crampons. None of them explain sidehilling.

[iron]

when snow is that hard, it's 95% of the time late season which means large suncups are everywhere. find the flat portion of the suncup with each step and you're good to go. for truly steep, scary stuff, you're front-pointing anyway.

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man, you go through life, you try to be nice to people, you struggle to resist the urge to punch 'em in the face, and for what?

--- moe sizlack

[anonwums]

I've definitely traversed slopes where there were no suncups. How do you sidehill using front pointing? Lean into the slope and dagger your axe and slowly move sideways?

[iron]

yep.

wear steel pons if you're worried.

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man, you go through life, you try to be nice to people, you struggle to resist the urge to punch 'em in the face, and for what?

--- moe sizlack

[iron]

or just jump and hope
http://www.nwhikers.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7993811&highlight=overcoat#&pid=4e22245c21c1f3635c46afb315013ab4

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man, you go through life, you try to be nice to people, you struggle to resist the urge to punch 'em in the face, and for what?

--- moe sizlack

[williswall]

If the snow is that hard, you probably won't be able to arrest....I'd stay off it and go another day. Of course, if you must go, then you can chop steps.

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"You run with me, not the other way around.” (Cassie re races)

williswall.com

[RandyHiker]

https://www.climbing.com/skills/french-technique/

[Jeff]

You can flat foot, but it's tedious. I edge with one foot and flat with the other. Although there are almost always minor suncups so sometimes you don't even need crampons.

[anonwums]

You edge in crampons? I always learned not to do that. Which foot edges in? I imagine the uphill one.

[iron]

both feet can edge. top is easier due to angles and foot height relative to snow. you just need a few teeth in a little bit to make life happy.

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man, you go through life, you try to be nice to people, you struggle to resist the urge to punch 'em in the face, and for what?

--- moe sizlack

[Cougar]

Yes you can edge with both feet using just the inside points.  If the slope is really steep and icey being roped up is a safe way to go since it would be tough to self arrest in those conditions very quick. I wouldn't recommend going it alone in that terrain though I have in my distant past and somehow managed to live to tell about it.

Another way which is an almost lost art today is to chop steps with the adze on your use axe.  That's what it's there for.  It's kind of tough with the modern shorties everybody uses now and it's slow but better safe than sorry in this case.   

[RandyHiker]

[graywolf]

[graywolf]