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Cyclopath
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PostWed May 22, 2019 5:50 pm 
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CNN article:
https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/22/health/diet-cancer-risk-study/index.html

JNCI Article:
https://academic.oup.com/jncics/advance-article/doi/10.1093/jncics/pkz034/5492023?searchresult=1

Quote:
More than 80,000 new cancer cases are estimated to be associated with suboptimal diet among US adults in 2015, with middle-aged men and racial/ethnic minorities experiencing the largest proportion of diet-associated cancer burden in the US.

What does "poor diet" mean exactly?

Quote:
The researchers evaluated seven dietary factors: a low intake of vegetables, fruits, whole grains and dairy products and a high intake of processed meats, red meats and sugary beverages, such as soda.

"Low whole-grain consumption was associated with the largest cancer burden in the US, followed by low dairy intake, high processed-meat intake, low vegetable and fruit intake, high red-meat intake and high intake of sugar-sweetened beverages," Zhang said.

The study included data on the dietary intake of adults in the United States between 2013 and 2016, which came from the National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey, as well as data on national cancer incidence in 2015 from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

The order of risk was a little surprising to me, I would think a lack of vegetables and fruits would be #1, but it's whole grains.

Going low carb and keto is all the range right now, but not a good idea long term.  Except for those for whom it's medically necessary.
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neek
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PostWed May 22, 2019 8:33 pm 
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Eat food.  Mostly plants.  Not too much.

When it comes to diet, people are simply incapable of making rational choices (blame evolution and scarcity for part of that).  It's been pretty well established for some time what a healthy diet consists of, and what the risks of an unhealthy diet are.  Yes there are still questions on the fringes (is alcohol ok?  chocolate?  potatoes?), and occasional surprises (e.g. the latest on excess iron), but seriously, sometimes it's like people want to suffer and die.  Honestly I'm surprised the article ties only 5% of cancer to poor diet.  I guess to keep things simple they had to have a limited definition of "poor".
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Jake Robinson
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PostWed May 22, 2019 9:25 pm 
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neek wrote:
Eat food.† Mostly plants.† Not too much.

up.gif

In addition to the health benefits, it's also a lot cheaper to eat this way. Unfortunately it requires time and effort to prepare your own food, which is a barrier to many. Learn to love the process of cooking and make time for it and it's a win-win.

As for keto, I've seen several people lose weight with that style of eating. Most people have told me they simply felt way less hungry when cutting carbs, therefore ate less food and lost weight. Maybe an interesting tool for weight loss but it seems odd to me to be on a diet that wouldn't allow you to eat appreciable portions of carrots, apples, beans, oats, etc.
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RandyHiker
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PostWed May 22, 2019 9:28 pm 
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IME a big factor in avoiding cancer is choosing the right parents.  Eating about half of typical American portion sizes is good in a lot of ways too.  Sitting is another big risk factor.

But one can diligently follow all the recommendations and still have cells go bad and have to cut away , kill with poison and blast with radiation significant parts of the body to be rid or the bad cells.
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RandyHiker
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PostWed May 22, 2019 9:38 pm 
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Jake Robinson wrote:
but it seems odd to me to be on a diet that wouldn't allow you to eat appreciable portions of carrots, apples, beans, oats, etc.

My son lost a bunch of weight on keto for maybe a year.  But unfortunately with three kids in the house this resulted in multi meal prep which wasn't sustainable and the weight has creeped back up. 

I adopted an "eat less" approach about a year ago and I am down about 30 pounds.   I didn't go keto, but I did eliminate a lot of carby foods, but not stuff like carrots.  Retiring and lack of work stress certainly has helped avoid "comfort eating".
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Cyclopath
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PostWed May 22, 2019 11:00 pm 
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neek wrote:
When it comes to diet, people are simply incapable of making rational choices (blame evolution and scarcity for part of that).† It's been pretty well established for some time what a healthy diet consists of, and what the risks of an unhealthy diet are.† Yes there are still questions on the fringes (is alcohol ok?† chocolate?† potatoes?), and occasional surprises (e.g. the latest on excess iron), but seriously, sometimes it's like people want to suffer and die.† Honestly I'm surprised the article ties only 5% of cancer to poor diet.† I guess to keep things simple they had to have a limited definition of "poor".

Unfortunately one thing the internet has done is to remove knowledge from the public.  I mean a popular example is Russian trolls on Facebook, but any snake oil salesman can set up a soap box and reach millions.  The diet industry for its part is worth tens of billions, and doesn't make it by telling people to eat less and move more, it makes it by sowing confusion and then offering a magic solution.  In the end, a lot of people believe calories have nothing to do with weight, it's all about insulin when the science has been settled on this for a long time.  And a lot of people think flavoring your coffee with a stick of butter is healthy, because there are no devil's carbs that way.
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Cyclopath
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PostWed May 22, 2019 11:01 pm 
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RandyHiker wrote:
IME a big factor in avoiding cancer is choosing the right parents.  Eating about half of typical American portion sizes is good in a lot of ways too.  Sitting is another big risk factor.

But one can diligently follow all the recommendations and still have cells go bad and have to cut away , kill with poison and blast with radiation significant parts of the body to be rid or the bad cells.

You can wear your seat belt every day if your life and still get taken out by a sniper.  Remember near DC?  I still wear my seatbelt though.   smile.gif
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DigitalJanitor
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PostThu May 23, 2019 10:52 am 
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Cyclopath wrote:
...Going low carb and keto is all the range right now, but not a good idea long term.† Except for those for whom it's medically necessary.

I'm working out 8+ hours/week plus trying to keep a minimal weight lifting routine going, and the couple times I've dabbled in true 'low carb' eating my exercise performances have plummeted so badly I immediately threw in the towel. From everything I've read this isn't an uncommon experience. The lurking rumors I keep hearing about re keto-ish diets might be the risk of cardiovascular disease. Case in point, check out item #4 from this article... super striking that two gals on virtually identical diets had such a huge spread in cholesterol response, and a reminder that specific diets aren't one-size-fits-all.

My conclusion: "eat food, mostly plants, not too much" is still the best starting point. From there YMMV.

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iron
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PostThu May 23, 2019 1:00 pm 
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Cyclopath wrote:
I mean a popular example is Russian trolls on Facebook

sorry, you can't write that here. too political.

http://www.nwhikers.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8028603

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RandyHiker
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PostThu May 23, 2019 1:15 pm 
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DigitalJanitor wrote:
The lurking rumors I keep hearing about re keto-ish diets might be the risk of cardiovascular disease

Yeah, I found it hard to reconcile my son eating deep fried pork rinds with healthy eating. 

I think the general issue with "diets" in America is that the basic truth is in order to lose weight and keep it off one must be able to observe the sensation of hunger and decide not to eat.    Choosing foods that take longer to digest helps decrease the intensity of the feeling of hunger.  OTOH foods containing flour, sugar and other quickly digested ingredients result in hunger sensations returning quickly.

But YMMV a lot, I talked to a man whose obesity and diabetes was getting grave and he adopted a "lots of tiny meals" approach and he lost 120lbs and was almost back to a healthy  body weight.
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DigitalJanitor
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PostThu May 23, 2019 3:42 pm 
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RandyHiker wrote:
But YMMV a lot, I talked to a man whose obesity and diabetes was getting grave and he adopted a "lots of tiny meals" approach and he lost 120lbs and was almost back to a healthy† body weight.

I'm guessing that he was able to eat less overall with a constant trickle of food going in, but who knows. By any means necessary!

Another YMMV case study is a guy I know that has to keep his body quite lean or else his BP and insulin really goes haywire, and he's managed to keep that in check by eating some meat + lots of veg/fruit. He chalks it up to the native american portion of his genetic background being better tuned to a non/low-grain based diet.

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Cyclopath
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PostThu May 23, 2019 5:51 pm 
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RandyHiker wrote:
Yeah, I found it hard to reconcile my son eating deep fried pork rinds with healthy eating.

I posted this on another forum and somebody replied that fruit is worse for the body than alcohol, because it contains sugar.  I just can't see a way of eating that demonizes apples and raspberries as healthy. Keto specifically is so limited in terms of carbs that it's very hard to get enough vegetables.  If that's healthy, we're living in opposite land.
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RandyHiker
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PostThu May 23, 2019 7:11 pm 
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Cyclopath wrote:
I posted this on another forum and somebody replied that fruit is worse for the body than alcohol, because it contains sugar.  I just can't see a way of eating that demonizes apples and raspberries as healthy. Keto specifically is so limited in terms of carbs that it's very hard to get enough vegetables.  If that's healthy, we're living in opposite land.

Agreed.  I think eating fruits and vegetables directly is good stuff.  But if it's "strawberry rhubarb pie, not so much.  Eating vast amounts of fruit can cause other problems as my twin 3 yo granddaughters demonstrated last month the day after I was a bit too indulgent with servings of frozen blueberries.  Poor girls!!

I've been eating a considerable amount of carrots,  cabbage,  cauliflower and broccoli, but very limited amounts of potatoes, rice, wheat, etc.
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Anne Elk
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PostThu May 23, 2019 11:37 pm 
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RandyHiker wrote:
the basic truth is in order to lose weight and keep it off one must be able to observe the sensation of hunger and decide not to eat.

Jason Fung, MD is a Canadian nephrologist who got interested in weight issues because of all the type 2 diabetics he was seeing (they develop kidney problems).  According to him, a primary reason it's hard to lose weight is that the typical North American eating habit is to be constantly "grazing", or more to the point, eating too late, so that our bodies are in a constant state of insulin elevation (and also eating too much of the wrong stuff). If you have insulin circulating in your system too many hours in a day, your metabolism can never access your fat reserves. He recommends some diet modification, but mostly intermittent fasting, which can be as simple as only eating within a 12, 10, or 8 hour window.  I found that when I do this, my appetite decreases after a few days.

His lectures are quite interesting; "old wisdom made new".  Here's the Cliff Notes version of his POV (half hour). His extended lecture series on this (with all the good science) starts here. One of the things he says that surprised me was that breakfast is NOT sacrosanct.  Remember all the old advice about how necessary a good breakfast is to power your day and be mentally alert?  It's baloney.  chow.gif

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Vertec
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PostFri May 24, 2019 9:54 am 
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Low Carb / Keto is an 'emerging' theory that seems to be gaining traction.  My wife has been near-keto for four years and has been successful in mitigating metabolic syndrome.  She attended the recent Seattle event run by this organization:

https://www.lowcarbusa.org

Due to the decrease in carbs in our house, I also had trended to a less-carb diet and saw good results.  Last month we went up to BC where I began the weekend eating too much "carby" asian foods, and immediately felt like sh1te.  So I also made the switch and have been amazed at the improvements, especially when climbing.  Now my only source of carbs are veggies, and limited fresh fruit.  My wife uses almond flour and flax seed for baking, and has become good at creating yummy treats.  Her keto cheese cake is fantastic.

The most notable difference (in addition to dropping 5 pounds and 1" inch of my waste in 2 weeks - I wasn't 'rotund' when I started) was that I no longer "bonk" during the first hour of a climb.  "Bonking" is the term used to describe what happens (and how it feels) when the body shifts from burning sugar in the blood supply to burning glycogen from the liver and eventually accessing fat stores.

Keep in mind a keto diet can be 'tuned' a bit for the individual.  My wife eats more fat due to her insulin situation, I eat more protein due to cholesterol issues (which may actually be caused by carbs anyway).

This whole thing is fascinating.  Check out the material from the link above.  My standard "Your milage may vary" disclaimer apples.  Also, your doctor may frown, but the doctors "on board" with the low carb movement are quite convinced it has merit.

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