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Cyclopath
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PostFri May 24, 2019 10:22 am 
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Anne Elk wrote:
Jason Fung, MD is a Canadian nephrologist who got interested in weight issues because of all the type 2 diabetics he was seeing (they develop kidney problems).† According to him, a primary reason it's hard to lose weight is that the typical North American eating habit is to be constantly "grazing", or more to the point, eating too late, so that our bodies are in a constant state of insulin elevation (and also eating too much of the wrong stuff).

He's reversing the causality.  That's not just my opinion, I'm something what a lot of PhDs have to say.  All the insulin stuff is a result of excess body fat, not the other way around.
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Cyclopath
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PostFri May 24, 2019 10:25 am 
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Vertec wrote:
Low Carb / Keto is an 'emerging' theory that seems to be gaining traction.

It's not a theory, it's a way of eating.

Vertec wrote:
The most notable difference (in addition to dropping 5 pounds and 1" inch of my waste in 2 weeks

Yep.  Going keto gets rid of a lot of water weight quickly, and people get excited, which can be a good placebo jumpstart.  To actually lose 5 pounds of fat, which matters, takes a high starting number and a very aggressive deficit of about 1,200 kcal per day.
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Get Out and Go
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PostFri May 24, 2019 12:16 pm 
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After the winter holidays, I challenged myself with the Whole30 diet.  It is quite dogmatic in its approach (1 violation and you need to start over.)  Nevertheless, I was 100% compliant and dropped 12 pounds in 30 days.  It's more about becoming aware of what you eat by eliminating not only carbs, but additives, even minute traces of sugar, detoxing and developing better eating habits.  I will probably do another reset in the future.  Although, I had a loaned copy of one of the books, everything you need is online.  https://whole30.com/whole30-program-rules/
One need not ever buy another diet book again since there are so many websites that provide recipes and guidance for whatever diet you choose.

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"These are the places you will find me hiding'...These are the places I will always go."
(Down in the Valley by The Head and The Heart)
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Anne Elk
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PostFri May 24, 2019 12:32 pm 
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Cyclopath wrote:
Anne Elk wrote:
Jason Fung, MD is a Canadian nephrologist who got interested in weight issues because of all the type 2 diabetics he was seeing (they develop kidney problems).  According to him, a primary reason it's hard to lose weight is that the typical North American eating habit is to be constantly "grazing", or more to the point, eating too late, so that our bodies are in a constant state of insulin elevation (and also eating too much of the wrong stuff).

He's reversing the causality.  That's not just my opinion, I'm something what a lot of PhDs have to say.  All the insulin stuff is a result of excess body fat, not the other way around.

Can you post a citation for that?  Somewhere in Jason Fung's longer program (the second link, not sure which episode) he says that when diabetics go on insulin, they start gaining weight, and MDs tell them to expect it.

Vertec wrote:
Due to the decrease in carbs in our house, I also had trended to a less-carb diet and saw good results... my only source of carbs are veggies, and limited fresh fruit.

Yes, my understanding of the "keto" or "paleo" diets (are they the same?) is to eliminate high glycemic carbs (eg, potatoes, white rice, pasta, bread) and refined sugar of any kind.  Remember the "Adkins diet"?  There's so much meat and fat in it, I get nauseous just reading about it.

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"There are yahoos out there.  Itís why we canít have nice things."  - Tom Mahood
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RandyHiker
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PostFri May 24, 2019 2:06 pm 
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Get Out and Go wrote:
After the winter holidays, I self-challenged myself with the Whole30 diet.†

My wife, son and daughter-in-law did Whole 30 a couple of years ago while I was away in Japan for a month.    They all lost weight.  But it's a lot more work doing the meal preparation.   I also lost weight during the same time -- Japanese portion sizes are about 1/3 to 1/2 American portions.
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melc
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PostFri Jun 21, 2019 10:24 am 
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I have issue with blood glucose after eating. Like one piece of bread with a meal and eek!

I am fit and thin. I had no idea until I was diagnosed with gestational diabetes. I can not pass a glucose tolerance test. To be safe I eat lower carbs and do some ~intermittent fast (dont eat most days for 12 to 18 hour window). At some point I want to try full keto and cycle between lower carb and keto.

I used to get hangry and need snacks. I don't have such crazy hunger anymore with lower carb. I have a glucose meter now and  check sometimes.

I'm not sure why this is a problem for me. I assume it is my genetics, part Hispanic so therefore some native american (and therefore distantly related to east asian, all populations that suffer more from issues like diabetes.)
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coldrain108
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PostFri Jun 21, 2019 11:20 am 
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My Dad (RIP) was always overweight.  His approach to food was "it is a reward for hard work" which is the exact opposite - that is like saying gasoline is the reward your car gets for driving you somewhere.  No gas for you until you drive somewhere.  No food for you until you meet my standard of work.  Makes sense from an evolutionary point of view - last thing you want is the "competition" (all the other people) getting enough food so as to be able to equally compete with you for the scarce resources.

That upside down relationship with food is the obesity trigger. My Dad would eat 3x what was needed, because he deserved it!  The last 20 years of his life were miserable, knees, back, feet.  He died from a massive stroke at 74.   Luckily for me my Mom is German and I followed in that line of reasoning for food - small meal in the evening, big meal at noon and the biggy: "Deserve's got nothing to do with it" I love me a good Clint quote. She can keep up with me on a trail and she is 85.

Still I have the genetics to gain weight if I don't stay active.  I love hiking, so that keeps me moving.

One of my favorite bumper stickers:

Eat right, exercise, die anyway

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"The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil, but by those who watch and do nothing"  - Albert Einstein
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Cyclopath
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PostFri Jun 21, 2019 10:53 pm 
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Anne Elk wrote:
Can you post a citation for that?  Somewhere in Jason Fung's longer program (the second link, not sure which episode) he says that when diabetics go on insulin, they start gaining weight, and MDs tell them to expect it.

Anne Elk wrote:
Yes, my understanding of the "keto" or "paleo" diets (are they the same?) is to eliminate high glycemic carbs (eg, potatoes, white rice, pasta, bread) and refined sugar of any kind.  Remember the "Adkins diet"?  There's so much meat and fat in it, I get nauseous just reading about it.

I'm sure I can find a citation.  If you do some research you'll find I'm not making any of this up though.  (I have to get up tomorrow at the ungodly hour of 5:30 am for trail skills college so I can volunteer for PCTA.  I'm not doing any research tonight.) 90+ % of people who get T2D are overweight or obese, T2D = loss of sensitivity to insulin, requiring chronically elevated levels.  Fat is a hormonally active organ, it affects insulin sensitivity among other things.  (For what it's worth, exercise improves sensitivity to insulin, due to the prolonged energy requirement.)

Keto is all carbs.  It's something ridiculous like < 30 grams per day of any and all carbohydrates.

Keto is short for ketosis, a biological state you can be in.  You can buy and pee on "keto sticks" which are like a litmus test for ketosis.

Paleo is something different, it's eating like what you assume a person in the distant past are like, with bonus points for having no idea what ancient people ate like.  Anthropology tells us or ancestors are everything that was edible, including fruits, berries, and melons.  There are places where they did up skeletons and find lots of cavities because the people ate lots of sugary melons.  But "paleo" is mostly fat and protein.

It isn't all flavoring your coffee with butter, though, there's more to it.
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Cyclopath
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PostFri Jun 21, 2019 10:57 pm 
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RandyHiker wrote:
Get Out and Go wrote:
After the winter holidays, I self-challenged myself with the Whole30 diet.†

My wife, son and daughter-in-law did Whole 30 a couple of years ago while I was away in Japan for a month.    They all lost weight.  But it's a lot more work doing the meal preparation.   I also lost weight during the same time -- Japanese portion sizes are about 1/3 to 1/2 American portions.

The real problem with this is it doesn't teach anybody a sustainable way to keep the weight off.  So you do something drastic, hit your goal weight, celebrate, and go back to normal.  Then a year later the weight is back.  This is why the vast majority of diets fail long term.

But they don't all fail, many of the people who take a sensible approach are able to keep it off indefinitely.  See the National Weight Loss Registry.
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RandyHiker
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PostSat Jun 22, 2019 7:06 am 
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Cyclopath wrote:
RandyHiker wrote:
Get Out and Go wrote:
After the winter holidays, I self-challenged myself with the Whole30 diet.†

My wife, son and daughter-in-law did Whole 30 a couple of years ago while I was away in Japan for a month.    They all lost weight.  But it's a lot more work doing the meal preparation.   I also lost weight during the same time -- Japanese portion sizes are about 1/3 to 1/2 American portions.

The real problem with this is it doesn't teach anybody a sustainable way to keep the weight off.  So you do something drastic, hit your goal weight, celebrate, and go back to normal.  Then a year later the weight is back.  This is why the vast majority of diets fail long term.

But they don't all fail, many of the people who take a sensible approach are able to keep it off indefinitely.  See the National Weight Loss Registry.

I'm still down about 35 lbs from before my trip to Japan.   

I'm using the "eat less" approach along with "hunger is a sensation, it doesn't require action"

I think that many Americans are packing around extra pounds because there is such an abundance of food, much of it extremely high in calories and that experiencing discomfort of any sort isn't the cultural norm.

Hunger is uncomfortable.  Maintaining a lower body weight demands developing the ability to endure this discomfort.
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Parked Out
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PostSun Jun 23, 2019 7:43 am 
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Anne Elk wrote:
Cyclopath wrote:
Anne Elk wrote:
Jason Fung, MD is a Canadian nephrologist who got interested in weight issues because of all the type 2 diabetics he was seeing (they develop kidney problems).† According to him, a primary reason it's hard to lose weight is that the typical North American eating habit is to be constantly "grazing", or more to the point, eating too late, so that our bodies are in a constant state of insulin elevation (and also eating too much of the wrong stuff).

He's reversing the causality.† That's not just my opinion, I'm something what a lot of PhDs have to say.† All the insulin stuff is a result of excess body fat, not the other way around.

Can you post a citation for that?† Somewhere in Jason Fung's longer program (the second link, not sure which episode) he says that when diabetics go on insulin, they start gaining weight, and MDs tell them to expect it.†

This would tend to support Fung's position:

BACKGROUND. Metabolic syndrome (MetS) is highly correlated with obesity and cardiovascular risk, but the importance of dietary carbohydrate independent of weight loss in MetS treatment remains controversial. Here, we test the theory that dietary carbohydrate intolerance (i.e., the inability to process carbohydrate in a healthy manner) rather than obesity per se is a fundamental feature of MetS.

METHODS. Individuals who were obese with a diagnosis of MetS were fed three 4-week weight-maintenance diets that were low, moderate, and high in carbohydrate. Protein was constant and fat was exchanged isocalorically for carbohydrate across all diets.

RESULTS. Despite maintaining body mass, low-carbohydrate (LC) intake enhanced fat oxidation and was more effective in reversing MetS, especially high triglycerides, low HDL-C, and the small LDL subclass phenotype. Carbohydrate restriction also improved abnormal fatty acid composition, an emerging MetS feature. Despite containing 2.5 times more saturated fat than the high-carbohydrate diet, an LC diet decreased plasma total saturated fat and palmitoleate and increased arachidonate.

CONCLUSION. Consistent with the perspective that MetS is a pathologic state that manifests as dietary carbohydrate intolerance, these results show that compared with eucaloric high-carbohydrate intake, LC/high-fat diets benefit MetS independent of whole-body or fat mass.


https://insight.jci.org/articles/view/128308

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Backpacker Joe
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PostSun Jun 23, 2019 8:35 am 
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I did the 30-10 Weight Loss for Life program a couple years ago and lost 60 pounds in three months!  The system works very well, although its expensive.  If you really want to lose weight its the way to go.

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"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."

ó Abraham Lincoln
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