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KarlK Member
Joined: 18 Jun 2009 Posts: 584 | TRs | Pics
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KarlK
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Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:11 pm
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Bill Ford, one of BCHW's many expert sawyers, recently mentioned (hint hint) to Winthrop's Don Hecker that a big horse-stopping spruce remained across the Twisp Pass trail a short distance inside the wilderness boundary following a WTA operation. Chainsaws are prohibited in wilderness areas (not by law, but by a rebarbative administrative rule which has long contributed immensely to the loss of wilderness trail access). Edit: I may well be wrong about the 'administrative rule' claim. Some people claim that the NPS essentially exempted itself from the provisions of the wilderness act.
After studying pictures of the big spruce while sipping some of Don's finer amber restorative, I said something on the order of "yeah, I think Gladys can do that."
Gladys, so named by my wife, is my 61" crosscut felling saw; she intially brought down trees prior to WW2 in the Eatonville region. Gladys was expertly restored by BCHW's chief saw guru Tom Faubion and re-entered service in 2017 (e.g., https://www.nwhikers.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8025307).
But this job would also require additional and higher-level expertise in the complex art of crosscut bucking, so we recruited retired Methow District Ranger Mike Liu and another guy named Mike who prefers to be referred to simply as 'the other Mike.'
Ranger Mike also recruited his daughter Christina, a strong and hard working addition to the team whose strength and stamina significantly upped the odds of success.
The other Mike is a C-certified sawer with an immense amount of experience involving complex bucking problems. Both size and positioning made this a tricky problem indeed.
The big spruce was angled across a rather deep trail trench, creating a lot of potential for dropping a big chunk of it into that trench. With chainsaws we could have easily enough reduced the problem into managable parts, but with a crosscut saw, the cut plan requires a much higher level of problem solving.
Crosscut work also entails extensive use of an ax to drive bucking wedges into the saw cut (kerf) to keep it open (red and orange wedges in pictures), for removing bark (which dulls saws), and for removing stobs and branches to make it possible to roll or drag logs.
Note also in photos 14 and 15 the use of metal "hanging" or "tie" wedges driven across the kerf to literally tie the log sections together. These were provided the the other Mike, who we thank for his invaluable help and instruction.
1. Big spruce viewed from E 2. Big spruce viewed from W 3. Discussing the cut plan 4. MikeL & KarlK chopping out mistletoe 5. Working on the first cut 6. Good progress on first cut 7. DonH finishing first cut 8. DonH chopping out a stob 9.Precision stob chopping 10. Mike Liu & daughter Christina working on the second cut 11. Christina Liu working on the second cut 12. Second cut done & round rolled to safe location 13. MikeL finishing the third cut-note ramp and measures to prevent rollback 14. Use of hanging (aka "tie") wedges to stabilize kerf and prevent rolling 15. Closeup of hanging wedge 16. Explanation of hanging (tie) wedges 17. ~2000 lb log about midway across trail trench 18. Log all the way across and near final resting position 19. Almost 7 hours after starting
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RichP Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2006 Posts: 5628 | TRs | Pics Location: here |
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RichP
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Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:41 pm
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KarlK wrote: | 19. Almost 7 hours after starting |
That's a very fine feeling.
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Brushbuffalo Member
Joined: 17 Sep 2015 Posts: 1887 | TRs | Pics Location: there earlier, here now, somewhere later... Bellingham in between |
Another productive day in the woods that will benefit many. Thanks, gentlemen and lady!
KarlK wrote: | Chainsaws are prohibited in wilderness areas (not by law, but by a rebarbative administrative rule which has long contributed immensely to the loss of wilderness trail access). |
I didn't know that. I had always assumed it was law,...same with " no bikes or motorcycles" in designated wilderness areas....or is that also administrative only?
I find it interesting that some trail volunteers ( not you) don't use power equipment even where allowed. I surely would where allowed...get 'er done and go clear more in one tenth the time (if 100 times more noise and ten times more weight).
Passing rocks and trees like they were standing still
Passing rocks and trees like they were standing still
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KarlK Member
Joined: 18 Jun 2009 Posts: 584 | TRs | Pics
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KarlK
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Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:37 pm
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Brushbuffalo, indeed some (probably many) trail workers use only crosscut saws. They're a lot lighter to pack and when properly filed and set work surprisingly well (but not in the sense of speedy fast) on a wide variety of downed trees.
Crosscut saws are also less likely to cause grievous injuries.
It's just that you can get orders of magnitude more cutting done with chainsaws. One Stihl 460 with a 25" bar would have turned our almost all-day crosscut job into an hour's worth of cutting, probably less in the hands of highly skilled ex production loggers like Frank Schultz or Chuck Trueman.
The amount of work needed, for example, in the Pasayten is so great, that chainsaw use should be allowed in my view, which is shared by a lot of people.
Interestingly, the park service runs chainsaws in most national parks. Additionally, wildland firefighters run chainsaws in wilderness areas.
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Sky Hiker Member
Joined: 03 Feb 2007 Posts: 1469 | TRs | Pics Location: outside |
Very nice, would a good come along been useful also?
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KarlK Member
Joined: 18 Jun 2009 Posts: 584 | TRs | Pics
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KarlK
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Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:57 pm
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Sky Hiker, yes, perhaps so, but we were limited to brain power and people power on this job. Guys like 'the other Mike' and Tom Mix and Del Sage do some amazing stuff with grip hoists, aka come alongs.
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fourteen410 Member
Joined: 23 May 2008 Posts: 2622 | TRs | Pics
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I can't thank you enough for your work. Bravo to all of you!
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iron Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2008 Posts: 6391 | TRs | Pics Location: southeast kootenays |
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iron
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Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:49 pm
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looks like a fine way to spend retirement!
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Kat Turtle Hiker
Joined: 05 Oct 2003 Posts: 2560 | TRs | Pics
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Kat
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Sat Jun 29, 2019 5:01 am
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Wow. That's just amazing - and great shots of this complex task. This is probably a silly question - but I am assuming those tie wedges are pounded horizontally across the cut with a large hammer?
How was the 61" saw carried in - on horseback?
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gb Member
Joined: 01 Jul 2010 Posts: 6303 | TRs | Pics
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gb
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Sat Jun 29, 2019 6:36 am
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My thought is also "WOW". What a complex and difficult task. Many thanks for such an effort! And that is just one tree.
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KarlK Member
Joined: 18 Jun 2009 Posts: 584 | TRs | Pics
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KarlK
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Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:23 am
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Kat, the tie wedges are usually driven with an ax, in this instance 'the other Mike's' 3 lb refurbished Plumb ax. Since these fairly thin metal wedges go in with the grain, they're quite easy to place.
This was my first experience with tie wedges and it was a revelation! They do a terrific job of holding the log halves together and can substantially increase the margin of safety.
The saws are relatively light -- mine with handles weighs 7 lbs -- and are fairly easy to hike with using a sling arrangement (with those wicked sharp fangs protected using a length of fire hose jacket, for example) and that's what we did. The horse riders often use elegant leather scabbards, often custom made.
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Kat Turtle Hiker
Joined: 05 Oct 2003 Posts: 2560 | TRs | Pics
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Kat
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Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:39 am
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Interesting. And more good info! Thanks.
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John Morrow Member
Joined: 03 Apr 2007 Posts: 1526 | TRs | Pics Location: Roslyn |
Brushbuffalo wrote: | Another productive day in the woods that will benefit many. Thanks, gentlemen and lady!
KarlK wrote: | Chainsaws are prohibited in wilderness areas (not by law, but by a rebarbative administrative rule which has long contributed immensely to the loss of wilderness trail access). |
I didn't know that. I had always assumed it was law,...same with " no bikes or motorcycles" in designated wilderness areas....or is that also administrative only?
I find it interesting that some trail volunteers ( not you) don't use power equipment even where allowed. I surely would where allowed...get 'er done and go clear more in one tenth the time (if 100 times more noise and ten times more weight). |
Lots of well intentioned inaccuracies here. Chainsaws, motors, and mechanical transport of any kind (bicycles for example) are indeed prohibited (i.e. illegal). However, for administrative purposes only (i.e. federal agencies) this can be exempted if it can be demonstrated through an analysis that they are absolutely necessary to meet the minimum requirements for the administration of the area. This is difficult, as it should be. See all the recent press on the San Juan NF decision this spring.
The Wilderness Act (i.e. Federal Law enacted by Congress and signed by President Lyndon Johnson, Sept 3, 1964)
Section 4(c): Except as specifically provided for in this Act, and subject to existing private
rights, there shall be no commercial enterprise and no permanent road within any
wilderness area designated by this Act and, except as necessary to meet
minimum requirements for the administration of the area for the purpose of this
Act (including measures required in emergencies involving the health and safety
of persons within the area), there shall be no temporary road, no use of motor
vehicles, motorized equipment or motorboats, no landing of aircraft, no other
form of mechanical transport, and no structures or installation within any such
area.
Awesome engineering and delineating a great cut plan on the big spruce!!! Rolling 2000lbs on well prepared and placed roller logs had to be satisfying! Looks like it was fortunately down next to the big one?
“Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?”-Mary Oliver
“A nation that continues year after year to spend more money on military defense than on programs of social uplift is approaching spiritual doom.”
― MLK Jr.
“Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?”-Mary Oliver
“A nation that continues year after year to spend more money on military defense than on programs of social uplift is approaching spiritual doom.”
― MLK Jr.
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John Morrow Member
Joined: 03 Apr 2007 Posts: 1526 | TRs | Pics Location: Roslyn |
Brushbuffalo wrote: | I find it interesting that some trail volunteers ( not you) don't use power equipment even where allowed. I surely would where allowed...get 'er done and go clear more in one tenth the time (if 100 times more noise and ten times more weight). |
Karl mentioned the hazard concerns of chainsaw for volunteers. i put it this way: with a crosscut the log may get you, with the chainsaw the log and the chain can get ya'.
“Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?”-Mary Oliver
“A nation that continues year after year to spend more money on military defense than on programs of social uplift is approaching spiritual doom.”
― MLK Jr.
“Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?”-Mary Oliver
“A nation that continues year after year to spend more money on military defense than on programs of social uplift is approaching spiritual doom.”
― MLK Jr.
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KarlK Member
Joined: 18 Jun 2009 Posts: 584 | TRs | Pics
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KarlK
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Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:50 pm
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John, well, butter my butt and call me a biscuit!
My (mis)understanding of this was predicated on an explanation last summer by a PhD forester friend who had a lot of credibility with me.
I suppose I'd go query his understanding of the matter, but he up and died of a cancer that came on and killed him so fast as to once again remind me that there ain't no guarantees in this life, pilgrim, save for death, taxes and stupid laws.
As for chainsaws, yes they're inherently dangerous tools and trail volunteers are now required to be certified and wear full PPE while running a saw.
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