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HikerJohn
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Joined: 01 Sep 2008
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Ok, put your "way back" hats on. In thinking about the "pack weight" question, I harkened back to an old film about hypothermia that we used to see in First Aid classes. It was cheesy, cheaply filmed, but actually pretty educational.
He produced another film about Heat Stroke, etc called "Thermal Wilderness" that wasn't as good or as popular.
BUT I can't remember the film or the name of the producer.
Anyone???
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HikerJohn
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Figured it out:
"By Nature's Rules" by Jim Lawless.
Found it on Youtube-- pretty campy, but also a pretty good and sobering reminder about how fast Hypothermia can disable a seemingly capable person!
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fourteen410
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That was delightfully cheesy 
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Bernardo
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Bernardo
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 Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:33 am |
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Nice film, HikerJohn. Thanks for posting.
For the viewers, surely we've learned something in the ensuing years. But what? What advice in the film is wrong or has been overtaken by technological advances?
It seems these days most fatal accidents involve falling, not hypothermia. Did we collectively learn the message of the film? Maybe it's because clothing has improved, including tents and rain gear, that we don't hear about hypothermia so much?
The film makes a big deal out of having a stove. From the prescriptive tone, it sounds like there was resistance in the hiking community to carrying a stove that the filmmaker wanted to overcome. Stoves back then were probably heavy and expensive. Still today, most day hikers don't carry a stove and many backpackers carry no or minimalist stoves.
I guess I'm a little skeptical that hypothermia would bring one to the point of complete breakdown, before one would realize the need to do something, but maybe that's the effect of education on the subject.
So how has the collective wisdom changed since this film was made?
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JonnyQuest
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| HikerJohn wrote: | | "By Nature's Rules" by Jim Lawless. |
Wow, you found it! Trip down memory lane from back in the late 70's when I was getting into backpacking via scouts and school.
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Malachai Constant
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Saw that back in early 80’s at a Ski Patrol Circle A class, even then they had to apologize for it being dated 
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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HikerJohn
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| Bernardo wrote: | | So how has the collective wisdom changed since this film was made? |
Good questions Bernardo,
I don't think much has changed since the film was made-- people can still be incredibly dumb and ill-prepared.
I've been with groups where one of the members falls in hypothermia so subtlely that no one noticed until they were really into it. Case in point a few years back when a group was snow-camping up at Snoqualmie and one of the boys was playing in the snow (like boys do), including laying around in it. Sun went down, boys got sedentary and we adults realized he had lost his gloves and he was shaking- the other boys hadn't noticed, however. What the film teaches is Hypothermia can creep up on a group.
It can hit the strongest members. I led a climb of Mt. Hood a number of years back and we went early to catch the sunrise on the peak. It was very windy up top and we sat down with our backs to the wind to wait for the dawn and chatted for about an hour-- when I noticed I was shivering and teeth chattering. I got up and did some jumps to warm up but after 15 minutes, I noticed no improvement AND noticed some others showing signs of lethargy so I got the group up and insisted we head down to get out of the wind. We then went back up in time to see the sun, but then headed down. No one else noticed that I was shaking-- including even me!
But I also think people have gotten complacent, such that they think "help is just a push of a button away"
Example: yesterday was cold and drizzly up at Summit Lake as I was on patrol and here comes 5 young men in t-shirts, jeans, carrying water bottles and phones in their hands. No raingear, no extra food, nothing to shelter in. They were okay, but I thought "if one of them sprains an ankle, they are going to be in serious doo-doo.." so I watched them from afar. They probably thought "if something bad happens we can just call 911" but I had no service up there and even if they did, help would have been hours away. As it happened, they had a secret "guardian angel" (aka Forest Ranger) watching them, but what if I hadn't been there? There was no one else around and an injured party could have succumbed to hypothermia before help arrived.
So I think the lessons of "By Nature's Rules" still apply:
- Be prepared, including raingear and extra clothing
- Watch each other
- Don't be so focused on the top, you lose your life!
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puzzlr
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puzzlr
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Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:53 pm |
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Pahoehoe
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Pahoehoe
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Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:25 pm |
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| Bernardo wrote: | | It seems these days most fatal accidents involve falling, not hypothermia. Did we collectively learn the message of the film? Maybe it's because clothing has improved, including tents and rain gear, that we don't hear about hypothermia so much? |
Actually I forget the percentage but I remember SAR saying most people they rescue, even in the summer have at least beginning stages of hypothermia..
| Bernardo wrote: | | I guess I'm a little skeptical that hypothermia would bring one to the point of complete breakdown, before one would realize the need to do something, but maybe that's the effect of education on the subject. |
Once you start down the road, if you cant get warm and dry fast you will be in big trouble... what happens is someone is wet/damp from sweat and/or weather but they are producing a lot of heat so they arent cold... then they stop.
They are tired. They get chilled fast if they dont get the wet stuff away from their skin and add layers before they get cold.
Once you're cold it's real hard to get warm if you dont have another human or a way to generate heat.
 Sweet Pilgrim
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Dharmabum
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Keep them coming. I really enjoy watching these old movies.
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Sweet Pilgrim
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There is a similar film "The Mountains Don't Care" that I showed in a safety meeting in the late 1970's or early 1980's. I think it was on VHS or maybe film format (16mm?). Anyway I would sure like to find it again, hopefully on DVD. It was a true story of a young couple with a child (maybe 2 children) and a dog that weren't dressed or prepared for bad weather that came in suddenly on a hike in the mountains. Some or all of them perished. Anybody remember that film or know where it can be found today?
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