[rossb]

[rossb]

[Pahoehoe]

[rossb]

<i>If you spill on your shirt you can change it or wash it real well. Spill in your pack you can hang it. </i> That is assuming you have a different shirt. What is the difference between washing your shirt really well versus washing your sack really well? Your sack gets hung up every single night. The only food that is likely to spill on it is dry (e. g. dried chili) while your routinely where clothes while eating food that is wet (e. g. cooked chili). On the rare occasion that you spill something in a sack or on it, you can just pack your tent or sleeping bag directly in the pack if you happen to be through-hiking. If you are on the last night or base camping (e. g. make camp at only one place) then you can just wash it all when you get home. You are really suggesting a nightmare scenario that never happens: 1) You hang your bag and something inside it spills. 2) You can't clean it out. 3) You are backpacking to another place, and feel like it is essential that you stuff the tent into the bag. <i>Your sleeping bag and tent really need to be protected. I pack everything with that in mind. If I can be dry in a dry sleeping bag I am least likely to get hypothermia.</i> I agree, but that is a different subject. There are plenty of people who don't use a stuff sack for their tent or their backpack. They put everything in a liner, or depend on a backpack cover (or a waterproof backpack). I use sacks, but it is mainly a convenience. Everything goes inside a waterproof liner that sits inside a backpack that is supposed to be waterproof. There are far more common scenarios that are likely to attract bears or rodents. Folks here are basically saying it is OK to do a half-ass job when it comes to hanging the food. I get it -- this isn't California. But we do have black bears, and while they aren't the masters at getting food as their cousins to the south, they have been known to get their share of grub. Hang it high and well away from the limb. A sloppy job is less likely to result in a bear getting your food than in California, but you might as well do as best you can. Meanwhile, you are far more likely to leave a snickers wrapper in a pocket of a pack then you are to have a major blowout with your food bag. The former is actually tough to spot -- a few crumbs and you don't even notice. The latter is not only rare, but obvious (it is a bag -- turn it inside out and you can see if any crumbs fall out). Then there are cooking smells. Cook up a nice fish dinner, and of course every bear in the county smells that. If you are downwind of that delicious meal, the bear might think you are the fish (or have one in your pocket). Does that mean you should only eat Gorp? Of course not. Again, watch the crumbs. Keep it as clean as poosible. But spilling a little pasta primavera on your shirt is just gonna happen. Don't freak out. Clean it as best you can and you will be OK. Same with the food sack. This ain't nursing. You really don't need to be that precise.

[grannyhiker]

Problem is that both those pesky rodents and bears have a far keener sense of smell than do we humans. I once (about 10 years ago) ran a test with my late dog Hysson using his dried dog food. I put a serving of dog food into a plastic freezer bag and left it on the floor. (Hysson was outside barking at squirrels at the time so didn't know what I was doing). When he came in, he went straight to the freezer bag and started trying to rip it open. I tried double-bagging with two freezer bags with the same result. In other words, don't count on plastic bags blocking odors from bears or rodents, whose sense of smell is far greater than that of dogs. I then tried putting the freezer bag (with food inside) into a Loksak OP sack. Being now conditioned to finding food in a plastic bag on the floor, Hysson went over and sniffed the bag, but immediately lost interest and turned away. Conclusion: at least the OP sacks would keep Hysson from raiding his own food! Shortly after this experiment, I read an article on the BPL site written by a veterinarian who tested OP sacks with trained police drug dogs. The police put the substance into OP sacks and then turned the trained drug dogs loose. The dogs signaled on the substance in the OP sacks every time. In other words, even OP sacks didn't do the job with highly trained dogs. In other words, don't count on any plastic bag to block food odors!

[Pahoehoe]

[Ski]

wow. any data to support your assumptions? ========================================================= note to the OP: Hanging is generally the preferred method locally because thus far the black bears here haven't been much of a problem (the fact that Washington State is home to the second-largest black bear population - estimated to be 30,000 - 35,000 animals - in the continental US notwithstanding.) Hard-sided bear canisters are required in only a few areas in Washington State, the most notable probably being the Olympic coast, but that is because of raccoons, not bears. If you peruse enough trip reports on this website, you will find that rodents are the primary culprits when it comes to pilferage of food stores, not bears. Proper hanging of food stores will more often than not successfully thwart their efforts. I use a plain old nylon stuff sack for hanging my food, not an "Ursack", and have yet to have any issues with bears invading my food stores in over half a century of hiking in prime bear habitat. I do own a brand-new Garcia canister, but have yet to find reason for using it locally. When I get down to Redwood, I'll probably take it with me, if only for the purpose of assuaging the concerns of the NPS staff down at Orick. This isn't rocket science. It's camping and backpacking 101, and in most cases requires only the application of some common sense and prudence. Keep a clean camp, don't slop food all over the ground, don't toss your leftovers into the brush, don't smear peanut butter all over the front of your blouse, and you'll generally do just fine. There are some here who seem to have a propensity for over-thinking the simple and obvious. There is, of course, something of a learning curve, and more often than not some of us go through that process by trial and error. Accept that you will make mistakes, but it's unlikely they will be life threatening or cause the earth to stop rotating on its axis unless you are making a deliberate effort to be stupid. Your most valuable piece of equipment is your brain. Simply thinking about what you're doing first is usually the solution.

[80skeys]

Responding to original post. I'd just say don't take too much food, it's too easy to overplan it.. I take a little freeze-dried food and then I also take some powered Soylent which is kind of an emergency source of nutrition. A hunk of dried salami and dried fruit is excellent traveling food. Definitely take little long-burning fire-starter thingees - these are by far the easiest way to get a fire going. Take an Etrex Venture + topo maps and compass and know how to use them. I always take a heavier sleeping bag that's rated to 0F rather than trying to guess what the weather's going to be and taking a lighter one. Wool cap. non-cotton clothing that dries quick and keeps its warmth even if it gets wet. Wind shield to put around your camp stove. Sometimes there's no rocks around and you gotta be able to protect your stove from a breeze otherwise you'll never get water to boil. Katadyn hiker water filter Moleskin in case your boots aren't a good fit and start rubbing a part of your foot. Bear cans are virtually impossible to strap onto the outside of your pack so you have to plan a way to carry them inside your pack. Or go without and do the "hang your food in a tree" but there are a lot of people who have difficulty with this and don't do it properly which defeats the whole purpose of it (myself included). I personally just carry a bear can. Generally speaking the reason people almost never have problems with bears invading their food is simply because statistically bears and large wildlife are unlikely to stumble across your camp.