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Pahoehoe
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Pahoehoe
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PostWed Sep 04, 2019 11:11 am 
What you are referring to is a berm. Those are built. Bikes will actually ruin berms when they are really wet or really dry, requiring the to be rebuilt. It's pretty simple to build them in a way that the inside is walkable for hikers, but super steep berms really should be only built on biker only or biker has right of way trails like Tiger Mtn MTB bike trails.

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Cyclopath
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PostWed Sep 04, 2019 4:07 pm 
RandyHiker wrote:
Gee IDK -- based on the context of referencing a 15 km climb that an elite could climb in 42 minutes -- I'm not sure how you got the idea I was taking about a sprint.
You were telling us what you predict the average cyclist is capable of, but weren't clear about it. I tried to help people understand how this stuff works. You seem to be going on auto argue, and that doesn't interest me. So let's let this drop.

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treeswarper
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treeswarper
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PostSun Sep 08, 2019 10:35 am 

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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Joseph
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PostSun Sep 08, 2019 2:27 pm 
There are lots of places where people can enjoy riding the e-bikes and get out in the wilderness. And certainly more trails can be built and maintained for use by e-bikes. I say keep them out of the national parks and official wilderness areas (Alpine Lakes, etc.). Too much traffic and use already.

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Tom
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PostSun Sep 08, 2019 2:34 pm 
Joseph wrote:
There are lots of places where people can enjoy riding the e-bikes and get out in the wilderness.
A lot? Really? Where?

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Cyclopath
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PostSun Sep 08, 2019 4:15 pm 
I think this is a case of wilderness and Wilderness. There are places you can (legally) ride a bike that feel wild, that most people would recognize as wilderness. There's are no places in this country where you can ride a bike in federally-declared Wilderness. I haven't done Angels Staircase yet, but Cutthroat Pass feels pretty wild on a weekday when it's not crowded. I think that's what he meant.

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Joseph
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PostSun Sep 08, 2019 4:40 pm 
Tom wrote:
Joseph wrote:
There are lots of places where people can enjoy riding the e-bikes and get out in the wilderness.
A lot? Really? Where?
I guess I was referring to anywhere you can legally ride a regular pedal bike (or mountain bike) - along gravel roads, logging roads, etc. Maybe more on the east side of the cascades (?). In any case, I would prefer to not have them in the national parks.

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Tom
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PostSun Sep 08, 2019 5:19 pm 
I'm confused. What are you opposed to? Bikes in national parks? Or allowing e-bikes where bikes can go? You don't seem to really know where e-bikes can ride.

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Ski
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PostSun Sep 08, 2019 5:25 pm 
I think we're back to the "confusion about what designated wilderness areas are" part again. If people refuse to use the same language as lands management agencies, or continue to assign their own definitions to terms which are clearly defined in federal statutes, they will always be confused.

"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Tom
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PostSun Sep 08, 2019 5:53 pm 
A good bit of the confusion comes down to the title of the article being disingenuous and intended to mislead rather than highlight e-bikes will only be allowed where bikes are already permitted and that superintendents are given discretion to determine what’s appropriate for their park.

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Damian
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PostSun Sep 08, 2019 6:13 pm 
Schroder wrote:
take a look at any trail with a series of switchbacks and try to walk on the ramps created from them skidding around every one of them.
Where?

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Ski
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PostSun Sep 08, 2019 7:00 pm 
Tom wrote:
A good bit of the confusion comes down to the title of the article being disingenuous and intended to mislead rather than highlight e-bikes will only be allowed where bikes are already permitted and that superintendents are given discretion to determine what’s appropriate for their park.
Agreed. It's not noted in the article, but they wouldn't be allowed in designated wilderness areas either in accordance with existing federal statutes. That would include virtually every trail within Mt. Rainier National Park and Olympic National Park, unless I'm mistaken.

"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Randito
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PostSun Sep 08, 2019 7:06 pm 
Damian wrote:
Schroder wrote:
take a look at any trail with a series of switchbacks and try to walk on the ramps created from them skidding around every one of them.
Where?
I've observed cinder block reinforcement on the switchbacks on the Miller peak trail in the Teanaway. Motorcycles are permitted there and numerous trails nearby. Motoheads invest a considerable amount of time and effort in grooming the trails open to motorbike usage to enjoy their fun. The cinder blocks are embedded sideways in the thread and soil compacted tightly around and in them. It makes for a surface that is pretty durable for bike usage, but a bit awkward for hikers. I've encountered motoheads using this and other trails in the area while hiking and IME they have been safe and respectful.

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Tom
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PostSun Sep 08, 2019 7:55 pm 
Brian R wrote:
I have since come to find out that ebikes aren't allowed on the John Wayne Trail.
Just curious where you heard this? In researching it seems they are allowed on the John Wayne Trail.

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Randito
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Randito
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PostSun Sep 08, 2019 8:48 pm 
Tom wrote:
Brian R wrote:
I have since come to find out that ebikes aren't allowed on the John Wayne Trail.
Just curious where you heard this? In researching it seems they are allowed on the John Wayne Trail.
https://reviews.mtbr.com/washington-state-clarifies-e-bike-rules-on-trails
Quote:
The law establishes three classes of e-bikes based on pedaling and speed capabilities. It also distinguishes use by riding surface. Class 1 and 2 e-bikes are allowed on paved – but not natural surface – trails unless otherwise specified by local land managers.
https://parks.state.wa.us/521/Palouse-to-Cascades
Quote:
No motorized vehicles are allowed on the trail with the exception of snowmobiles in winter, which are allowed from Stampede Pass Road to Cabin Creek.

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