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nickmtn
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Joined: 04 Jun 2014
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Location: Kirkland, wa |
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nickmtn
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 Sun Sep 15, 2019 8:07 pm |
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This is gate keeping pure and simple. Keep the masses out so an elite few can have a better experience. Seems to be the way most things are set up these days, pull up that ladder!
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olderthanIusedtobe
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Joined: 05 Sep 2011
Posts: 7707 | TRs | Pics
Location: Shoreline |
 I haven't even been up to this trailhead for a couple years I think. Even just that recently it wasn't nearly this much of a fiasco. Sounds like maybe more trouble than it's worth anymore. I guess it's a good thing I got in quite a few trips up there previously.
That is a good question of where folks will redirect to. Most of them probably drove a decent distance and aren't just gonna turn around and go home. Time to overrun the previously fairly reasonable Chiwaukams?
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slabbyd
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Joined: 21 Jun 2005
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slabbyd
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Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:04 am |
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| olderthanIusedtobe wrote: | | Time to overrun the previously fairly reasonable Chiwaukams? |
With backpacking already being regulated it's really the day hikers that are going to have to find another spot. 2000' of vert and 8 miles roundtrip seems like sort of the sweet spot for how far people are willing to dayhike.
I'm no expert on Chiwaukums but seems like everything on the north side of Icicle Creek or south of Hwy 2 is just on a different scale that the hike to Colchuck Lake. 16 miles RT to Lake Margaret or 4000' of up on Chatter Creek is going to shut down tons of day hikers. No one's going to hike up Wildhorse Creek 5+ miles for some modest views of sort of open meadows. Not to mention while it's all pretty it's not the ***** snapshot of Dragontail behind Colchuck Lake.
So where does everyone go? Ingalls Lake seems like a well known, pretty and reasonably close (on the way back to Seattle) spot. Will be curious to see if any areas see particularly higher impact.
And how long can they keep a ranger standing at the start of the road? I see a lot of illegal parking in the near future.
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Pahoehoe
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Joined: 12 Oct 2017
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Pahoehoe
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Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:08 am |
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I say give permit holders 1 parking spot, and they can purchase more. The remaining parking spots can be bought and reserved. Not cheap. Say 30 dollars?
Use money to keep outhouses clean, garbage emptied and parking well enforced. A friendly parking lot keeper would be a benefit to all.
Contract with a shuttle company, seems like enough people want to be out there that 10 dollars a head would make bank.
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MtnGoat
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Joined: 17 Dec 2001
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Location: Lyle, WA |
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MtnGoat
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Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:41 am |
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| Jeff wrote: | | If gatekeeping is the answer then the bridges over the Icicle could be removed to really keep the crowds elite. |
I think closing the entire Icicle would keep it even more elite. After all, no off the couch citizen should have simple access to a couple places which are great and don't require continuous workouts to get to in a day. ALL of the mountains should require the dedication the hard cases put into it, it's their playground after all.
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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MtnGoat
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Location: Lyle, WA |
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MtnGoat
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Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:42 am |
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| nickmtn wrote: | | This is gate keeping pure and simple. Keep the masses out so an elite few can have a better experience. Seems to be the way most things are set up these days, pull up that ladder! |
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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Pahoehoe
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Pahoehoe
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Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:12 am |
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I dont know, it kinda sounds like the only way to get a parking spot right now is to sleep in your car.
I kinda feel like when places reach a certain level of popularity, they need to be managed.
This is one of them. The parking situation is a safety issue.
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Slugman
It’s a Slugfest!
Joined: 27 Mar 2003
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Slugman
It’s a Slugfest!
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Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:36 am |
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| nickmtn wrote: | | This is gate keeping pure and simple. Keep the masses out so an elite few can have a better experience. Seems to be the way most things are set up these days, pull up that ladder! |
Complete nonsense based apparently on paranoia and brainwashing. There is zero element of "gatekeeping" here. No evidence is provided by the complainer, that's a giveaway right there. Then he claims this non-existent gatekeeping is everywhere! If it "seems" to him that his fantasy is true, then his "seemer" is clearly broken.
There are issues related to overcrowding. It cannot be dealt with other than to reduce the crowds. Wow, how hard is that to understand?
So, lets use the mtn goat method: let everyone do anything they want, then when catastrophe ensues, blame everyone and everything except for the brainless decision that led to the disaster.
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Slugman
It’s a Slugfest!
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Slugman
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Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:41 am |
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You can tell mtn goat has zero idea of what this thread is about, when he appears to claim that 4,800 vertical feet is a dayhike that average people can easily do without "working out". And that is just to get to the edge of the Enchantments from the current trailhead.
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MtnGoat
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MtnGoat
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Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:06 am |
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I suggest you re-read the argument you are griping about.
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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Cyclopath
Faster than light
Joined: 20 Mar 2012
Posts: 7715 | TRs | Pics
Location: Seattle |
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Cyclopath
Faster than light
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Mon Sep 16, 2019 12:04 pm |
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| slabbyd wrote: | | olderthanIusedtobe wrote: | | Time to overrun the previously fairly reasonable Chiwaukams? |
With backpacking already being regulated it's really the day hikers that are going to have to find another spot.t |
Parking is on a first come first served basis. If there's an empty, legal parking spot when you arrive, or if there isn't, it doesn't matter whether you have an overnight permit.
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Cyclopath
Faster than light
Joined: 20 Mar 2012
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Cyclopath
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Mon Sep 16, 2019 12:06 pm |
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| jasonracey wrote: | | I totally agree with this move. It's been overrun by people who haven't put in the years and miles to earn it. Let them enjoy Mount Si and Talapus Lake. |
We should ban hikers entirely and make this a MTB only trail. You can earn it by carrying your bike up Aasgard on your shoulder. Let the homers have Si and Talapus, like you say.
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coldrain108
Thundering Herd
Joined: 05 Aug 2010
Posts: 1858 | TRs | Pics
Location: somewhere over the rainbow |
| Cyclopath wrote: | | jasonracey wrote: | | I totally agree with this move. It's been overrun by people who haven't put in the years and miles to earn it. Let them enjoy Mount Si and Talapus Lake. |
We should ban hikers entirely and make this a MTB only trail. You can earn it by carrying your bike up Aasgard on your shoulder. Let the homers have Si and Talapus, like you say. |
but you would be hiking if you are carrying a bike instead of riding it - so no trail for you! 
I say just remove all safety signs, make it a "it's 100% your responsibility to make it out alive" zone and no more SAR missions, you go to the enchantments you are on your own. Actually I'd like that just about everywhere, now that would really thin out the crowds, back to early 80's numbers when it was going to be a long painful wait for help to arrive if one got sloppy on the trail. I loved backpacking back then so much. It really had one on edge the entire trip, every step was in the "no fall" zone. Only those really willing to risk their lives were out there...and we liked to go way out there - Cloud Peak wilderness was my favorite in the lower 48 - 2 days hike back to the trail head and then several hours to reach a phone, even then any help was still a long ways away. Made you stop and think 3 or 4 times before you went for it.
Now a push of a button and the chopper that has been waiting just for your call will get sent in a flash...and if it isn't there in a flash expect a call from my lawyers! 
Since I have no expectations of forgiveness, I don't do it in the first place. That loop hole needs to be closed to everyone.
Since I have no expectations of forgiveness, I don't do it in the first place. That loop hole needs to be closed to everyone.
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Pahoehoe
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Pahoehoe
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Mon Sep 16, 2019 1:47 pm |
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Ummm..
Population growth, not search and rescue capabilities, is the reason for the crowds.
The population of the seattle area has exploded since the early 80s...
And if it was you or your loved one, you would want that rescue...
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olderthanIusedtobe
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Joined: 05 Sep 2011
Posts: 7707 | TRs | Pics
Location: Shoreline |
| Pahoehoe wrote: | | Ummm..
Population growth, not search and rescue capabilities, is the reason for the crowds.
The population of the seattle area has exploded since the early 80s...
And if it was you or your loved one, you would want that rescue... |
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