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Kim Brown Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2009 Posts: 6899 | TRs | Pics
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Ski wrote: | ^ In over 30 years of submitting comments to NPS, USFS, USFWS, BLM, WDFW, and DNR, I have yet to receive one phone call, one letter, or one email as a direct result of my entering my full name, mailing address, zip code, phone number, and email address into the "public comment record" on any project proposals. |
Often an agency includes PDF's of comments, and if those comments include addresses, there's your address for anyone to see. In at least 3 NEPA projects I've browsed, the addresses were not redacted from the document.
Chances are high that this is a sophisticated process; from what I've seen of other NPS NEPA projects, personal info is redacted, or unique comments re-typed into a database record.
To be honest, the environmental community can be a nasty, back-stabbing bunch. I’d keep my personal information off of comments re: controversial projects.
When the Suiattle Road docs were available, I expected sh## to fly. Actually, 2 people against the road opening - a NW Hiker gas-bag, and the managing director of a not for profit organization - tried to get me fired from my internship at The Mountaineers, and also my job, then at WTA, for being a "bad environmentalist." Their efforts went nowhere.
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
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Pahoehoe Member
Joined: 12 Oct 2017 Posts: 563 | TRs | Pics
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Pahoehoe
Member
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Thu Oct 03, 2019 1:38 pm
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Ski wrote: | Pahoehoe wrote: | "Humans should always have top priority on public land..." |
That would depend upon exactly which "public land" you are referring to.
The opening line of the founding legislation which created Olympic National Park reads "For the benefit and enjoyment of the people...", so in the case of Olympic National Park, "the people" do have (by Congressional mandate) top priority. (The "flora and fauna" are mentioned in the second line, which gives them a lower priority level. |
I suppose that opens the question of what would benefit the people... conservation? Preserving native species and habitats? Is that more of a benefit than uninhibited use and access free from the minor risk that some animals pose?
Once they are gone, they are gone.
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treeswarper Alleged Sockpuppet!
Joined: 25 Dec 2006 Posts: 11276 | TRs | Pics Location: Don't move here |
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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
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Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:18 pm
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A thank you to the poster of NPS links.
On a facebook group I belong to, which usually has info on why you are hearing the fire dept. sirens. one of the administrators is spreading a MUST READ facebook post that is just...well....stupid and not fact based. I'm not for the bear dumping, but I am against spreading info that really has nothing to do with the bear project.
SURPRISE, according to the post, the North Cascades would be turned into a recreation area. Guess they didn't know it already was. After I pointed this out, the rumor spreader said well, they were going to put the bears in the wilderness. After that post, I pointed out that when you get down to it, the Pasayten is already a recreation spot already. Then the reply was made that the Pasayten was going to be turned into a Yellowstone. At that point, I came to this thread, looked up the official documents and I've posted the link on that facebook group page with a suggestion of reading it for FACTS.
I like living here, but it tries my patience some times. ARRRRGH. Am I spelling Pasayten correctly? The mice ate my map.
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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Kim Brown Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2009 Posts: 6899 | TRs | Pics
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By the way thread on this has already been started, with links, etc.
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
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Malachai Constant Member
Joined: 13 Jan 2002 Posts: 16092 | TRs | Pics Location: Back Again Like A Bad Penny |
Ski wrote: | ^ In over 30 years of submitting comments to NPS, USFS, USFWS, BLM, WDFW, and DNR, I have yet to receive one phone call, one letter, or one email as a direct result of my entering my full name, mailing address, zip code, phone number, and email address into the "public comment record" on any project proposals. |
The only time I got a comment back was when I and many nwhikers objected to closing the Middle Fork Road at Taylor. I received a small GIF of a bull in a corral. I haven’t bothered since.
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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Ski ><((((°>
Joined: 28 May 2005 Posts: 12831 | TRs | Pics Location: tacoma |
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Ski
><((((°>
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Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:08 pm
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Pahoehoe wrote: | I suppose that opens the question of what would benefit the people... conservation? Preserving native species and habitats? Is that more of a benefit than uninhibited use and access free from the minor risk that some animals pose? |
Conservation is the practice of the USFS, not NPS. (see "Breaking New Ground" by Gifford Pinchot )
NPS is in the preservation business. (see Muir, John. )
There's no "uninhibited" use of National Park Service land. Users must comply with the regulations as set forth in the Superintendents Compendium.
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Ski ><((((°>
Joined: 28 May 2005 Posts: 12831 | TRs | Pics Location: tacoma |
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Ski
><((((°>
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Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:11 pm
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Kim Brown wrote: | To be honest, the environmental community can be a nasty, back-stabbing bunch. I’d keep my personal information off of comments re: controversial projects. |
Well, Kim, your experiences have been much different than mine, I'm sure.
I don't have to worry about any "job" - I'm my own boss now - and anybody who wants to take me on is more than welcome - I always enjoy some good entertainment.
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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mb Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2002 Posts: 507 | TRs | Pics
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mb
Member
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Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:43 pm
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Re: bears in Olympics
I'm surprised at that. Not at the plants and small animals so much. But bears (and many of the listed animals) can easily travel that far. https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/go-west-young-bear-a-wave-of-swimming-grizzlies-are-colonizing-new-b-c-islands
Re: public comment.
Note that it's very different now than 30 years ago. All this info is now easy to search and find.
Mind you most people are pretty easy to find with just a semi-generic name and city pair. But it's not totally obvious. (Yes, you can find my name on public comments, mostly local but some at state and federal levels.)
Just like it's not totally obvious to track me from this website to any other or my real name. That's intentional--though I'm happy to meet any of the regulars here (whenever I'm next in the NW).
Any real adversary who wants to identify me? Utterly trivial.
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Pahoehoe Member
Joined: 12 Oct 2017 Posts: 563 | TRs | Pics
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Pahoehoe
Member
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Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:05 pm
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Ski wrote: | Pahoehoe wrote: | I suppose that opens the question of what would benefit the people... conservation? Preserving native species and habitats? Is that more of a benefit than uninhibited use and access free from the minor risk that some animals pose? |
Conservation is the practice of the USFS, not NPS. (see "Breaking New Ground" by Gifford Pinchot )
NPS is in the preservation business. (see Muir, John. )
There's no "uninhibited" use of National Park Service land. Users must comply with the regulations as set forth in the Superintendents Compendium. |
Perfect.
Seems like bears fit right in, then!
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Kim Brown Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2009 Posts: 6899 | TRs | Pics
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Ski wrote: | Well, Kim, your experiences have been much different than mine, I'm sure.
I don't have to worry about any "job" - I'm my own boss now - and anybody who wants to take me on is more than welcome |
O I wasn't worried about losing my job. It's just creepy that there are nutzoid people out there and I don't want to see them, hear them, or smell their stinking carcasses, let alone them knowing my name and where I live and work.
Funny thing though. A friend and I were at a coffee shop going over some stuff about the Suiattle Road, Green Mountain Lookout, and the Illabot Road issues ( or a combination of those) at the height of the NC3/Bill Lider/Pilchuck Audubon/ WELC lawyer shenanigans. Just after I said, "you know, XXXX (an NC3 guy), lives around here, wouldn't it be funny if....." (I had seen his address on a Public Comment document) and lo! Into the coffee shop walks XXXX (an NC3 guy). It was freaky.
Coincidence?
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
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Schroder Member
Joined: 26 Oct 2007 Posts: 6720 | TRs | Pics Location: on the beach |
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Schroder
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Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:30 pm
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zephyr aka friendly hiker
Joined: 21 Jun 2009 Posts: 3370 | TRs | Pics Location: West Seattle |
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zephyr
aka friendly hiker
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Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:11 pm
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Schroder wrote: | Here's one of the reports providing a basis for this plan: |
Thanks, Schroder. That was very interesting, the history, the ethnology/archaeology and natural history. It was enlightening just to read through the sightings list at the end. Overall, it looks like they did a thorough review of many resources. Hudson's Bay Fur Return records and First Nations accounts among others. ~z
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Brushwork Food truck
Joined: 18 Aug 2018 Posts: 508 | TRs | Pics Location: Washington |
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Brushwork
Food truck
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Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:20 pm
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Ok Kim, that’s freaky. I’m not meeting you in a coffee shop,
Actually sorry to hear you were threatened. Yikes.
When I grow up I wanna play.
When I grow up I wanna play.
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mb Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2002 Posts: 507 | TRs | Pics
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mb
Member
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Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:42 pm
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BaNosser Member
Joined: 04 Dec 2009 Posts: 198 | TRs | Pics
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BaNosser
Member
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Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:40 am
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Pahoehoe wrote: | Removing species from their natural habitats have consequences that might not be obvious. |
Reintroducing them will have very obvious consequences.. the deaths of hikers and hunters every year.. Black bears are cute... Browns will tear you to shreds.. how fun..
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