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Cyclopath
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Cyclopath
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PostWed Oct 09, 2019 10:24 am 
mb wrote:
(Good thing there's not really any MTB in NCNP. Are there any running races?)
I saw a MTB semi-hidden in the bushes at Cottonwood Camp in NCNP. Reported it to the ranger station in Stehekin, they didn't seem very interested in a long hike to deal with it.

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Cyclopath
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PostWed Oct 09, 2019 10:24 am 
BaNosser wrote:
Reintroducing them will have very obvious consequences.. the deaths of hikers and hunters every year.. Black bears are cute... Browns will tear you to shreds.. how fun..
That's not obvious at all, nor is it true.

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timberghost
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PostWed Oct 09, 2019 11:48 am 
What do you think will happen

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Cyclopath
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PostWed Oct 09, 2019 11:57 am 
There are already half a dozen grizzlies in the North Cascades. How many hikers and hunters do they kill every year? Zero. The plan is to introduce 25 more bears over the course of 10 years. They'll also kill zero hunters and hikers.

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texasbb
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PostWed Oct 09, 2019 12:09 pm 
BaNosser wrote:
Pahoehoe wrote:
Removing species from their natural habitats have consequences that might not be obvious.
Reintroducing them will have very obvious consequences.. the deaths of hikers and hunters every year.. Black bears are cute... Browns will tear you to shreds.. how fun..
Annually in North America, bears kill about 3 or 4 people. That includes Alaska and Canada, where the vast majority of grizzlies live. Adding 25 bears to the North Cascades can be expected to increase annual deaths by zero, statistically speaking. There may be reasons to oppose reintroduction, but human deaths is hardly one of them.

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Pahoehoe
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PostWed Oct 09, 2019 1:09 pm 
BaNosser wrote:
Pahoehoe wrote:
Removing species from their natural habitats have consequences that might not be obvious.
Reintroducing them will have very obvious consequences.. the deaths of hikers and hunters every year.. Black bears are cute... Browns will tear you to shreds.. how fun..
Only if you roll in bacon grease before you go to bed... Seriously, you aren't stupid, what's with the hysteria? Why would a few bears in the North Cascades kill more than the 1000s of bears in the rest of North America? Grizzlies are shy. They avoid people. As long as people secure their food and respect the bears the risk is minimal.

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Kim Brown
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PostWed Oct 09, 2019 2:14 pm 
Pahoehoe wrote:
As long as people secure their food and respect the bears the risk is minimal.
This is only good in print. People won't secure their food and respect the bears, and that needs to be a consideration in the decision.

"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area." Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
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Cyclopath
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PostWed Oct 09, 2019 2:18 pm 
iron wrote:
source?
This close enough for you? Three minutes with Google. smile.gif Everything I've read up 'til now says about half a dozen, but I'm multitasking here. Fewer than ten grizzlies remain in this ecosystem that sprawls across 9,800 square miles of rugged country, anchored by North Cascades National Park. This transboundary landscape stretches into British Columbia, where another 3,800 square miles of high-quality grizzly bear habitat exists, anchored by Manning Provincial Park. https://www.conservationnw.org/our-work/wildlife/northcascadesgrizzly/ Biologists estimate that fewer than 10 grizzly bears remain in the North Cascades, the most at-risk bear population in North America. The last verified grizzly sighting in Washington’s Cascades was in 1996, with more recent sightings in the British Columbia portion of the ecosystem. https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/environment/feds-look-again-at-reintroducing-grizzly-bears-to-north-cascades/ Based on sightings and tracks over the years, biologists estimate that fewer than 20 grizzly bears remain in the North Cascades -- the last U.S. outpost of West Coast grizzlies that once roamed from Canada to Mexico. Another 25 or fewer survive just north of the border in the Canadian Cascades, isolated from the rest of Canada's 25,000-some grizzlies. https://www.hcn.org/issues/43.19/the-forgotten-north-cascades-grizzly-bear/ Of North Cascades grizzly bear sightings reported to government agencies between 1950 and 1991, 20 were confirmed and an additional 81 were considered highly probable. Today, the estimated resident population in Washington’s North Cascades is fewer than 20 bears — the estimated population in British Columbia’s North Cascades is also fewer than 20 bears. It is likely the home ranges of a few grizzly bears span the international border. http://westernwildlife.org/grizzly-bear-outreach-project/grizzly-sightings/ https://www.hcn.org/issues/43.19/the-forgotten-north-cascades-grizzly-bear/ https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2019/07/27/grizzly-bears-reintroduced-north-cascades-national-park-orig-cl.cnn

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thunderhead
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PostWed Oct 09, 2019 2:22 pm 
Release them on mt si mailbox and rattlesnake, and the enchantments. Parking and overcrowding problems solved.

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Cyclopath
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PostWed Oct 09, 2019 2:33 pm 
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PostWed Oct 09, 2019 2:52 pm 
It's a lot easier to fool people than to convince them they have been fooled.

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Tom
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PostWed Oct 09, 2019 3:06 pm 
With less than a half dozen how would they even mate? Best scenario one male and four females.

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BigBrunyon
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PostWed Oct 09, 2019 4:08 pm 
If you count feeling a presence of a large carnivore potentially nearby late at night around a fire in the dark as .5 sighting, then the number of total sightings go up. Hell, even if y'only count it as .1. Similar to how the bigfoot guys rank the validity of sightings reports.

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Gil
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PostWed Oct 09, 2019 4:39 pm 
BaNosser wrote:
Reintroducing them will have very obvious consequences.. the deaths of hikers and hunters every year.. Black bears are cute... Browns will tear you to shreds.. how fun..
According to wikipedia, since 2014, black bears have killed 6 people in North America. Brown bears have killed 11. I don't mind that grizzlies could come back. We already share space with black bears, wolves and mountain lions. And of course the drive to the tralhead can be dangerous.

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nordique
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PostWed Oct 09, 2019 9:34 pm 
I'm in favor of bears in our mountains and especially grizzlies--since they are at the top of the animal predator list. The top predators often keep the ecosystem in balance. I lived in the Canadian Rockies for a couple of years--where grizzlies are not uncommon--and, knowing that they were there, kept me more alert--back before espresso was widely available! I only saw grizzly tracks on long ski tours in winter.

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