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Cyclopath
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PostWed Oct 09, 2019 10:24 am 
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mb wrote:
(Good thing there's not really any MTB in NCNP. Are there any running races?)

I saw a MTB semi-hidden in the bushes at Cottonwood Camp in NCNP.  Reported it to the ranger station in Stehekin, they didn't seem very interested in a long hike to deal with it.
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Cyclopath
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PostWed Oct 09, 2019 10:24 am 
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BaNosser wrote:
Reintroducing them will have very obvious consequences..  the deaths of hikers and hunters every year..  Black bears are cute...  Browns will tear you to shreds.. how fun..

That's not obvious at all, nor is it true.
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timberghost
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PostWed Oct 09, 2019 11:48 am 
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What do you think will happen
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Cyclopath
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PostWed Oct 09, 2019 11:57 am 
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There are already half a dozen grizzlies in the North Cascades.  How many hikers and hunters do they kill every year?  Zero.  The plan is to introduce 25 more bears over the course of 10 years.  They'll also kill zero hunters and hikers.
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texasbb
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PostWed Oct 09, 2019 12:09 pm 
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BaNosser wrote:
Pahoehoe wrote:
Removing species from their natural habitats have consequences that might not be obvious.

Reintroducing them will have very obvious consequences..  the deaths of hikers and hunters every year..  Black bears are cute...  Browns will tear you to shreds.. how fun..

Annually in North America, bears kill about 3 or 4 people.  That includes Alaska and Canada, where the vast majority of grizzlies live.  Adding 25 bears to the North Cascades can be expected to increase annual deaths by zero, statistically speaking.

There may be reasons to oppose reintroduction, but human deaths is hardly one of them.
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Pahoehoe
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PostWed Oct 09, 2019 1:09 pm 
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BaNosser wrote:
Pahoehoe wrote:
Removing species from their natural habitats have consequences that might not be obvious.

Reintroducing them will have very obvious consequences..  the deaths of hikers and hunters every year..  Black bears are cute...  Browns will tear you to shreds.. how fun..

Only if you roll in bacon grease before you go to bed...

Seriously, you aren't stupid, what's with the hysteria?

Why would a few bears in the North Cascades kill more than the 1000s of bears in the rest of North America?

Grizzlies are shy.  They avoid people.  As long as people secure their food and respect the bears the risk is minimal.
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iron
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PostWed Oct 09, 2019 1:13 pm 
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Cyclopath wrote:
There are already half a dozen grizzlies in the North Cascades.

source?

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Kim Brown
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PostWed Oct 09, 2019 2:14 pm 
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Pahoehoe wrote:
As long as people secure their food and respect the bears the risk is minimal.

This is only good in print. People won't secure their food and respect the bears, and that needs to be a consideration in the decision.

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" I'm really happy about this! … I have very strong good and horrible memories up there."  – oldgranola, NWH’s outdoors advocate.
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Cyclopath
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PostWed Oct 09, 2019 2:18 pm 
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iron wrote:
source?

This close enough for you?  Three minutes with Google.   smile.gif   Everything I've read up 'til now says about half a dozen, but I'm multitasking here.



Fewer than ten grizzlies remain in this ecosystem that sprawls across 9,800 square miles of rugged country, anchored by North Cascades National Park. This transboundary landscape stretches into British Columbia, where another 3,800 square miles of high-quality grizzly bear habitat exists, anchored by Manning Provincial Park.
https://www.conservationnw.org/our-work/wildlife/northcascadesgrizzly/

Biologists estimate that fewer than 10 grizzly bears remain in the North Cascades, the most at-risk bear population in North America. The last verified grizzly sighting in Washington’s Cascades was in 1996, with more recent sightings in the British Columbia portion of the ecosystem.
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/environment/feds-look-again-at-reintroducing-grizzly-bears-to-north-cascades/

Based on sightings and tracks over the years, biologists estimate that fewer than 20 grizzly bears remain in the North Cascades -- the last U.S. outpost of West Coast grizzlies that once roamed from Canada to Mexico. Another 25 or fewer survive just north of the border in the Canadian Cascades, isolated from the rest of Canada's 25,000-some grizzlies.
https://www.hcn.org/issues/43.19/the-forgotten-north-cascades-grizzly-bear/

Of North Cascades grizzly bear sightings reported to government agencies between 1950 and 1991, 20 were confirmed and an additional 81 were considered highly probable. Today, the estimated resident population in Washington’s North Cascades is fewer than 20 bears — the estimated population in British Columbia’s North Cascades is also fewer than 20 bears.  It is likely the home ranges of a few grizzly bears span the international border.
http://westernwildlife.org/grizzly-bear-outreach-project/grizzly-sightings/

https://www.hcn.org/issues/43.19/the-forgotten-north-cascades-grizzly-bear/
https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2019/07/27/grizzly-bears-reintroduced-north-cascades-national-park-orig-cl.cnn
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thunderhead
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PostWed Oct 09, 2019 2:22 pm 
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Release them on mt si mailbox and rattlesnake, and the enchantments.  Parking and overcrowding problems solved.
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iron
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PostWed Oct 09, 2019 2:28 pm 
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from your HCN link:

Quote:
Recent North Cascades Observations
Of North Cascades grizzly bear sightings reported to government agencies between 1950 and 1991, 20 were confirmed and an additional 81 were considered highly probable. Today, the estimated resident population in Washington’s North Cascades is fewer than 20 bears — the estimated population in British Columbia’s North Cascades is also fewer than 20 bears.  It is likely the home ranges of a few grizzly bears span the international border.

Upper Cascade River watershed, North Cascades, Washington State, October 2010

Photos taken by hiker Joe Sebille in October 2010 appeared to be that of a grizzly bear in Washington’s North Cascades. These were initially thought to be the first confirmed grizzly bear photos taken in the North Cascades in possibly a half-century. However, in 2015, additional photos surfaced taken by others in the same region and during the same general time period of the Sebille photos. These photos were less distant with better lighting and detail and appear to be this same bear — a large black bear with the prominent shoulder hump and other features which made it resemble a grizzly bear, especially in the distant profile as can be seen in the photo below. Read the full press release and see the photos.

and

Quote:
Fisher Creek Basin in North Cascades National Park, where the last known grizzly bear killed in the Cascades was shot in 1967.

so let me get this straight:
since 1967 there hasn't been a grizz shot or removed from the cascades.
there have been no actual photos of a confirmed grizzly since (1960s?)
biologists and others provide a bunch of estimates
bear population (ESTIMATED) is declining even without hunting

i am just as likely to believe sasquatch is out there.

even if there are grizz (still unseen even today with millions of photos taken), the population is shrinking. okay, let's throw some money at it, bring in some bears and a bunch of regulations, and then let them all wither away and die off. that sounds like a seattle homelessness policy, without the dying off part (instead, getting worse).

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man, you go through life, you try to be nice to people, you struggle to resist the urge to punch 'em in the face, and for what?

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Cyclopath
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PostWed Oct 09, 2019 2:33 pm 
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http://westernwildlife.org/grizzly-bear-outreach-project/grizzly-sightings/
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iron
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PostWed Oct 09, 2019 2:39 pm 
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like i said: that 2010 photo was the golden winner. the proof that they're here. it was all the rage. it validated all pro-bear folk. praise be to bearla. but then, it turned out that it was just a black bear. but, like many things online, the notion that something is true, even when proven false later (see: president's citizenship for $1000, alex), it takes a long time to disprove if even possible.

the rest of the "sightings" with the exception of perhaps the 2003 one (still questionable) are all just as true as the 2010 photo. the bear biologist that saw the grizz on glacier peak was probably a mile away and saw a hump.

when i'm a hammer, everything's a nail.

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man, you go through life, you try to be nice to people, you struggle to resist the urge to punch 'em in the face, and for what?

--- moe sizlack
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Ski
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PostWed Oct 09, 2019 2:52 pm 
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It's a lot easier to fool people than to convince them they have been fooled.

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I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Tom
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PostWed Oct 09, 2019 3:06 pm 
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With less than a half dozen how would they even mate? Best scenario one male and four females.
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Forum Index > Trail Talk > Fed wants public comments on bears
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