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MtnGoat
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PostThu Oct 31, 2019 8:28 am 
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Now that is funny, and ironic.

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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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Kim Brown
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PostThu Oct 31, 2019 10:05 am 
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Interesting to read the Scoping Comments on the USFS Project page.

I haven't read them all but as expected some people are for the fees and permits, some are for permit only without fees, and some are against it; at least one is against liberals, and still another against Oregon State Parks fees.

There are  comment(s) re: being for the permit, but against fees. Others address the compliance component – they do want some kind of control, but it won’t work if there’s no compliance, and no compliance if there’s no monitoring

And Ski, if you're reading this - they did not redact home addresses on comments that included them (I think I discussed this in one of the grizzly reintro threads).

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water
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PostThu Oct 31, 2019 10:39 am 
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great summary of 514 pages of comments! Probably the most relevant document to look at regarding the project. Very helpful to note someone doesn't like state park fees!

So Kim did you write to your representatives about the change in legislation in affirmative, disagreement, or you don't have a personal opinion beyond fees are the most expedient way to manage things the FS deems issues, so you support them (for now)?

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Ski
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PostThu Oct 31, 2019 11:03 am 
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Kim wrote:
And Ski, if you're reading this - they did not redact home addresses on comments that included them (I think I discussed this in one of the grizzly reintro threads).

I am assuming you are talking about comments submitted where the person included contact information within the message body, correct?

Unless I included my contact info within the message body, I've never seen any of my comments include that contact info.

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Ski
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PostThu Oct 31, 2019 11:04 am 
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So maybe this is a stupid question, but exactly what happens if you just say "FU" and don't pay the goddam fee or apply for the permit?

Just curious.

Gandhi called it "passive resistance".

Will they impound my vehicle? Throw me in jail? Put me on bread and water in the brig for 30 days?
Or just write me a citation that I can use to wipe my ass and then dispose of?

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Kim Brown
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PostThu Oct 31, 2019 11:13 am 
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We should conduct an experiment and do that. Then we’d know. (you do the thing, I’ll record the results)   tongue.gif

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" I'm really happy about this! … I have very strong good and horrible memories up there."  – oldgranola, NWH’s outdoors advocate.
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trestle
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PostThu Oct 31, 2019 11:28 am 
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But will you burn the citation after wiping your ass with it? or pack it out?  wink.gif  lol.gif

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Kim Brown
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PostThu Oct 31, 2019 2:28 pm 
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water wrote:
So Kim did you

Why are you obsessed with me?

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" I'm really happy about this! … I have very strong good and horrible memories up there."  – oldgranola, NWH’s outdoors advocate.
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Ski
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PostThu Oct 31, 2019 2:29 pm 
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bury it, of course.

yeah... I'll let you know, Kim... no problem.

hasn't been a problem thus far, and my position on "fee" hasn't changed one iota since they instituted the "fee" programs.

(apologies for ending the sentence above with a preposition - something up with which you should not put.)

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water
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PostThu Oct 31, 2019 3:26 pm 
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Obsessed with you? No, ever gawked at something disturbing? That's what you've posted, due to your trollish responses unrelated to the topic of fees. Conservation backfiring... Haha

But we established you support fees because they're expedient and you believe they address whatever need the FS claims they serve. And lack any vision to see or pursue alternatives to this, or realize the drivers behind pay to play on public lands and the direction that guides the future of recreation.

You've never answered what your elected folks say about this, are you just here to troll? My reps haven't responded yet.

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Brian R
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PostThu Oct 31, 2019 4:01 pm 
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Kim Brown wrote:
NWFP isn't generating a lot of money it's because it's not required in a lot of places. But according to the USFS site on fees and expenditure of those fees, they are being used appropriately.

A couple years old, but a good Oregon Live piece here.
"Officially, money spent in a national forest stays in that national forest, used for things like trail maintenance, rehabilitation projects and general operations. Technically, however, it's a little more complicated than that."

I don't want to bash on USFS too badly--kudos when they came through in a BIG way standing up to Pilchuck Audubon and NCCC to finally repair Suiattle Road. Not sure if NWFP dollars were used on this--I think it was a federal highway grant.

So, rather than impose a day-use fee with quotas, why not just raise the NWFP to, say, $35? I'm ok with paying for trail repair and traditional road access. What I'm not ok with is paying for the sake of maintaining some sort of USFS jobs program--where every fee dollar goes toward enforcement of said fee. Or into the pockets of some bogus vendor/org like the "Mount Saint Helen's Institute."
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pula58
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PostFri Nov 01, 2019 7:42 am 
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RandyHiker wrote:
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Posted: Sat Oct 26, 2019 3:22 pm     RandyHiker wrote:
I skimmed through the text of the bill.  From what I'm reading this bill changes the rules for "special permit fees" that are required of commercial guiding and activities like organizing a race.  I didn't see a section that would affect individual recreation on federal land.  What section of the bill affects individuals????

If it does not affect non-commercial and non-guided activities then I'd have no problem with this.
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Kim Brown
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PostFri Nov 01, 2019 7:54 am 
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Brian R wrote:
repair Suiattle Road. Not sure if NWFP dollars were used on this--I think it was a federal highway grant.

Yes ERFO from Fed Hwys money (Emergency Repair for Federally Owned Roads), plus Salmon Recovery Fund, and maybe some other stuff.

And yah, as with any agency, they deserve a bashing here and there, as well as a thumbs up.

It would be cool to get some funds earmarked for education; perhaps that will eliminate the need for permits; over-crowding and bad recreation practices started all this in the first place. (Not the NWFP, I mean permitting and quotas, which is the greater issue for me - lots to worry about, including cumulative impact - folks will bloop into and inundate un-permitted land). And to work with partner organizations and industry to educate on responsible promotion.

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" I'm really happy about this! … I have very strong good and horrible memories up there."  – oldgranola, NWH’s outdoors advocate.
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