Forum Index > Public Lands Stewardship > America's National Parks could be one week away from handing campgrounds over to private companies
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Slugman
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PostThu Oct 17, 2019 3:29 am 
So, myfoothurts thinks magical toilets will clean themselves. Fact: if someone is hired to clean toilets, they will want to be paid. If the campgrounds are outsourced, then the money is also gone from the parks. No park employee, but no money either, not for trails or for anything. Magical thinking is literally crazy. Randy keeps saying "NP trails are now open to ebikes", but it seems completely dishonest to me not to mention this only applies to a tiny amount of "trails" that are really just closed roads, and are not in the wilderness. Since this attempted deception has been pointed out in his last alarmist thread, it seems pretty eggregious to keep spreading this nonsense. The article Randy posted is a piece of noxious trash. I find it hard to believe anyone could be dumb enough to accept that load of over the top garbage. Some of it may actually be true, but the agenda of hatred by the author practically dripped from every word. I would want to read something based on reality, not just a diatribe from someone foaming at the mouth, before I got out my torches and pitchforks.

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Slugman
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PostThu Oct 17, 2019 3:47 am 
The NPS really does not know how to run a campground. Look at Kalaloch in ONP, very poorly run. The best campsites are on the bluff overlooking the ocean, the worst are back in the woods near to the highway. So for most of the year what do they do? Close 2/3rds of the campground, so that people are forced to camp in lousy spots while a few feet away are the best spots in the campground. A simple changing of the gate locations could allow for closing the unused poor campsites while leaving the best ones open. Then they refuse to electrify the campsites, but allow generators. This is so stupid and so completely destroys the peace and quiet that I will no longer camp there. When I camp at places run by Hoodoo recreation or similar outfits, the campgrounds are clean and inexpensive. And I have stayed at plenty, dozens, here in WA, in OR, and CA. I think people are forgetting these are car camping campgrounds catering to motorhomes as much as tents. Ever been to Yellowstone? The campgrounds are like little cities. They have stores, restaurants, laundromats, etc. Now someone is going to panic over a food truck? Holy cow.

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Bernardo
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PostThu Oct 17, 2019 5:29 am 
Well, it looks like people with good intentions can have different views on this subject. More data would be helpful at this point.

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Malachai Constant
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PostThu Oct 17, 2019 7:36 am 
Hoodoo in Oregon refused to accept interagency passes and charged daily fees at trailheads a few years back. When Lake Quinault lodge was managing the campgrounds they did not accept the passes and raised prices. Now the campground appear to be run by the FS and passes are accepted. We camped at one of those “prime” spots at Kalaloch on the bluff in winter and awoke with our tent and car covered with half an inch of ice. At Casa Verde NP Xanterra runs the campground and it is expensive but includes crappy WiFi, big whoop. In the Southwest we often boondock camp on BLM for free. I am sure that will be banned if the big outfits take over. In Yosemite the concessionaire trademarked the names of all the traditional lodges and the government had to pay $$$ to get the names back. Corporation are run to make profit (not that there is anything wrong with that) rather that provide services. It is worse when they are given de facto monopolies removing any benefits of competition.

"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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MtnGoat
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PostThu Oct 17, 2019 8:24 am 
I never thought I'd ever say this, but Slugman nailed it. up.gif The fact is that like it or not, camps in hugely popular parks are not going to suit the purists because many of the folks who want to go there are not LNT minimalists, or anything even close. They're average jamokes who want to sleep in the woods in a national park...in their campers, motorhomes, or pop ups. They want power hookups, and maybe a store close by too. It doesn't matter what *you* think is acceptable..this is *their* park too and they deserve some services they desire. Other people are allowed to want to recreate differently, and to actually do so as well. The comments on the parks running campgrounds are spot on, as is the pretty decent job Hoodoo has been doing. I hit Walupt lake CG (a Hoodoo concession) a lot, and they're dang good at a reasonable price.

Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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Ski
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PostThu Oct 17, 2019 8:47 am 
Thanks, Slugman. I was pretty sure NPS was running the Kalaloch campground, but wasn't 100% sure. I should probably note that from conversations with NPS staffers there and comments from tourists, there are some management issues there that really need to be resolved, a couple of which you mentioned above.

"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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edeezy
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PostThu Oct 17, 2019 9:58 am 
Starving a public agency of funds and then pushing for privatization when the inevitable issues that causes pop up is the oldest trick in the book.

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treeswarper
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PostThu Oct 17, 2019 3:55 pm 
Slugman, you got it, 'cept the toilet cleaners are probably paid less with few benefits. Fewer people maybe. They have to make a profit if they are a concessionaire. I are a trailer camper now. I have a very small travel trailer that can fit in some tiny spaces. What I've noticed is that the big trailers and motorhomes have very few spaces they can fit in--at least in the few NPS campgrounds I've been in, and Forest Service campgrounds also have that problem. My complaint is that the soft ice cream machines are nearly always broken when I camp at a place that has one. I hike through blazing heat on a hot asphalt path only to see a sign that the soft ice cream machine is OUT OF ORDER. Every time. Never fails. I am cursed. If yer gonna concessionaire, at least make sure the ice cream machine WORKS!

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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graywolf
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PostThu Oct 17, 2019 5:58 pm 
edeezy wrote:
Starving a public agency of funds and then pushing for privatization when the inevitable issues that causes pop up is the oldest trick in the book.
up.gif up.gif up.gif I agree.

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Ski
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PostThu Oct 17, 2019 9:01 pm 
treeswarper wrote:
"...make sure the ice cream machine WORKS!"
The soft-freeze ice cream machine at the Kalaloch store was operational every time I was up there this season. up.gif

"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Brian R
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PostThu Oct 17, 2019 11:09 pm 
Daily Kos? Well then, it must be true! embarassedlaugh.gif

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treeswarper
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PostFri Oct 18, 2019 7:14 am 
Ski wrote:
treeswarper wrote:
"...make sure the ice cream machine WORKS!"
The soft-freeze ice cream machine at the Kalaloch store was operational every time I was up there this season. up.gif
It has never been operational every time I go to Banks Lake. Never. But they have huckleberry ice cream which should be boycotted! A travesty! And yes, it is a state park. On the other hand, when I stop at Lake Roosevelt, the concession stand/ice cream is always closed because it isn't the popular season. I must fend for myself--forage in Kettle Falls.

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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Schroder
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PostFri Oct 18, 2019 7:54 am 
Recreation.gov is contracted to Booz Allen Hamilton and Recreation One Stop right now. Everything is contracted out. I don't see what's going to change here and the Daily Kos article is wrong - they aren't proposing to sell the campground property according to other articles.

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Brian R
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PostSat Oct 26, 2019 12:01 pm 
It's been almost two weeks now--has it happened?

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Schroder
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PostMon Nov 04, 2019 12:52 pm 
Trump team has a plan for national parks: Amazon, food trucks and no senior discounts[/size]
Quote:
Leaders of the Interior Department’s “Made in America” Outdoor Recreation Advisory Committee say these changes could make America’s national parks more attractive to a digitally minded younger generation and improve the quality of National Park Service facilities amid a huge maintenance backlog. As part of its plan, the committee calls for blacking out senior discounts at park campgrounds during peak holiday seasons.
Quote:
“If we’d known there’d be a big pushback to proposed blackouts on senior discounts, we might have dropped that off the list,” Crandall said. “All we’re saying is that it may not make sense on peak days like July 4 weekend to let seniors compete with a family with kids for a campsite.”

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