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Bosterson
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PostWed Nov 06, 2019 7:41 pm 
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Are you changing the shooting ISO (button on the knob on top to the left of the viewfinder) vs changing Auto ISO (a setting in the camera's menu)?

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iron
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PostWed Nov 06, 2019 8:53 pm 
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on some recent indoor photos:
aperture priority

picture 1 - daytime:
f/5
1/30
iso 6400
65mm focal length

picture 2 - nighttime, with bright hall light:
f/7.1
1/30
iso 6400
36mm focal length

iso was toggled, using upper left dial button, to 6400

in the menu under iso sensitivity settings:
auto ISO: ON
maximum: 6400
minimum shutter speed: auto

i guess i need to adjust the min shutter speed? will aperture priority then cap my max end of the f/ since my iso and shutter speed are capped?

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Bosterson
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PostWed Nov 06, 2019 10:01 pm 
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The reason all the pictures are being shot at ISO 6400 is that you manually set the ISO to 6400. You have to set the ISO (on the top left dial) to "Auto" for the Auto ISO settings to take effect.

I'm sure the min allowable shutter speed for Auto ISO (in the settings) is fine on "auto" - the camera will probably not choose a shutter speed of 1/focal length in order to minimize the effects of lens shake.

Aperture priority does not "cap" anything. It is a manual setting to a desired aperture that the camera then uses to choose the rest of the components of the exposure. If you shoot in A mode and set the aperture to f/5, all your photos will be at f/5. The camera will then choose a shutter and ISO combination to go with f/5 that will produce the correct exposure.

I would recommend ensuring the camera is in matrix metering (there is no reason to be on any other type of meter on a modern camera unless you're using the spot meter to do Zone System or something), and then set the exposure dial to P (program mode). See what happens. If you're shooting indoors without flash the camera will likely still choose fast enough shutter speeds to stop motion blur. (For your picture 1 example, you have an f/2.8 lens - 1 2/3 stops faster than f/5 - so the same exposure could have been made with f/2.8 at 1/100, which is more likely to stop blur.)

If you're still having problems with blur indoors without flash, change to S (shutter priority) and set it to at least 1/125. If the camera can't produce the correct exposure because it would need an ISO higher than 6400 (which you have capped for Auto ISO), your house is extremely dark and you might have to either get a flash or always turn the lights on at picture time.  smile.gif

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iron
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PostWed Nov 06, 2019 10:41 pm 
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as far as i can tell, there is no "auto" on the top left dial. i can scroll between L1.0 and H2.0. there's a little note above the ISO that reads: ISO-AUTO, but it will of course shoot what is listed below, so i'm not understanding how to override it.

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man, you go through life, you try to be nice to people, you struggle to resist the urge to punch 'em in the face, and for what?

--- moe sizlack
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Bosterson
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PostThu Nov 07, 2019 6:26 am 
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I have not personally used a D800, so you might want to confirm this with your manual, but the internet seems to indicate you should use the top dial to set an ISO of 100, and if you have auto ISO enabled in the menu (this should show up in the top LCD), then the camera will use 100 as the minimum and auto adjust up if it needs more exposure.

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We must move forward, not backward; upward, not forward; and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom!
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iron
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PostThu Nov 07, 2019 9:24 am 
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thanks. will give that a try. i think i previously had it like that, and then i get slow shutter speed as a result.

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man, you go through life, you try to be nice to people, you struggle to resist the urge to punch 'em in the face, and for what?

--- moe sizlack
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gb
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PostThu Nov 07, 2019 9:40 am 
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iron wrote:
thanks. will give that a try. i think i previously had it like that, and then i get slow shutter speed as a result.

If you are having trouble with this or in understanding your options, I would go into Glazers; somebody there is surely very familiar with the Nikon 800. You will shorten your learning curve appreciably.
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Backpacker Joe
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PostFri Nov 08, 2019 10:54 am 
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Everybody's different. I shoot mostly landscapes.  Generally Im hand shooting.  Remember Im using AV mode with allows me to control my depth of field and the camera handles shutter speed.  In that environment (radical conditions not withstanding) I shoot F8 at ISO 400.  That compensates for any shake with my hands.  If Im using a tripod I set it to ISO 50.  Now as conditions change, i.e. I walk into some dark woods or it gets really cloudy I might up the ISO to 800 or 1200, but first Ill see if what Im shooting can benefit from a depth of field change.  If I can go from 8.0 down to 5.6 (letting in more light) without effecting my image Ill chose that before moving my ISO up.  Remember, the higher your ISO the more grain is possible on your image.  Now In reality with todays digital cameras that really isn't an issue until you're up in the thousands.  Im coming from a film background so I always try and keep my ISO as low as reasonably achievable.

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awilsondc
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PostFri Nov 08, 2019 8:16 pm 
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iron wrote:
in the menu under iso sensitivity settings:
auto ISO: ON
maximum: 6400
minimum shutter speed: auto

i guess i need to adjust the min shutter speed? will aperture priority then cap my max end of the f/ since my iso and shutter speed are capped?

I'm going to guess you need to set the minimum shutter speed to what you don't want it to go below.  1/60 perhaps.  Leave ISO on auto.  Set maximum to 6400 (or what ever you prefer). Shoot in aperture priority mode.

What should happen is the camera will first shoot with as fast of a shutter speed as it can with ISO 100.  If it needs more light, the shutter speed will be reduced up until the minimum limit you set (1/60 in my example) The camera will then switch to raising the ISO instead of lowering the shutter speed any further.

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Damian
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PostFri Nov 08, 2019 9:43 pm 
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awilsondc wrote:
The camera will then switch to raising the ISO instead of lowering the shutter speed any further.

This is not how my Canon RP works.  The camera will violate the lower shutter speed limit once max ISO limit is reached in Aperture Priority mode.  It will never increase ISO above the limit you set.  Maybe this is not how they all do it.
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awilsondc
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PostSat Nov 09, 2019 12:22 pm 
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Damian wrote:
This is not how my Canon RP works. The camera will violate the lower shutter speed limit once max ISO limit is reached in Aperture Priority mode. It will never increase ISO above the limit you set. Maybe this is not how they all do it.

Sounds like a reasonable thing for a camera to do IMO.  First try lowering the shutter speed to its set limit.  Still need more light?  Increase ISO until you reach the set limit.  What then?  Leave it underexposed?  It makes sense to go back to shutter speed to get the right exposure.  With a lower shutter speed you still might get a good exposure.  Go above the ISO limit and the photo is garbage if the noise is too bad.

I think my Sony does the same thing though, goes back to lowering the shutter speed once the ISO is maxed but I'm not 100% certain of that.  I use max ISO of 6400 and min SS of 1/60.
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iron
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PostSat Nov 09, 2019 1:50 pm 
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i set up the ISO settings per the video. it seems that for indoors, even with decent daylight at 1pm, most shots are hitting iso 6400 (my set max) with f/5ish and min shutter speed of 1/100. exposure looks fine, so i guess that's good. i do notice that in darker spots, the min shutter speed of 1/100 is overridden, so that kind of defeats the purpose of this feature to me.

i'm kind of amazed that with a FF camera, the ISO still needs to be that high to get an okay indoor shot. i have no idea how cell phones can do it (granted, i don't have one so i don't have a good feel on quality and number of throw-away photos)

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man, you go through life, you try to be nice to people, you struggle to resist the urge to punch 'em in the face, and for what?

--- moe sizlack
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Bedivere
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PostSat Nov 09, 2019 3:49 pm 
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Indoor cell phone shots are being done at much lower equivalent shutter speeds than 1/100, and at wide apertures and high ISOs.

I shoot indoors quite a bit and my go-to lens on my camera is my 16-85 f3.5-5.6.  I set the aperture to the minimum, which will end up being 3.5 at 16mm and 5.6 at 85mm.  For band shoots at small venues I will sometimes rent a 24mm f1.4 and set the aperture to f2.0 or f2.8.  I have an APS-C sensor though, the 35mm would be a better choice on an FX sensor.

i never use 1/100 shutter speed as that will force the ISO up too high and isn't necessary for any subject I've encountered.  With VR enabled, shooting down to 1/30 almost always produces good results.  For subjects that are stationary or people just sitting around, 1/15 will even get the job done most of the time.  Occasionally I've needed to go as high as 1/60 but that starts to push the ISO up pretty high which introduces noise and reduces dynamic range.

I have a D7200 so the menu should be similar to your D800.  I googled and came up with this image for a D800 auto ISO menu which is slightly different than mine but the main ingredients are there and are the same.


Set the "ISO sensitivity" to the camera's minimum value.
Set "Auto ISO sensitivity control" to ON
Set "Maximum sensitivity" to whatever you can tolerate.  6400 is as high as I go on my camera but the D800 may produce better results at higher ISOs.
Set "Minimum shutter speed" to the lowest value you can generally get decent results with.  For indoors in decent lighting I usually go with 1/30.

If you're not shooting with a flash, which I almost never do, the setting for that can be ignored.

Now, with the camera in A mode it will keep the ISO as low as possible and shoot at 1/30 unless conditions are bright enough that it can increase the shutter speed at the minimum specified ISO.  If the scene is so dark that the maximum ISO is reached and you still can't get a decent exposure, the camera will override the minimum shutter speed and shoot slower.

If 1/30 is producing pics with motion blur (fast moving subjects) then use a faster minimum shutter speed.  that will just force the camera to use a higher ISO at whatever aperture you have set.

Cell phones have the equivalent of pretty wide angle lenses and large apertures. Think something like a 16mm f1.8 lens.  Keep in mind that the wider the angle of the lens the wider the aperture you can use and still get good DoF *and* the slower shutter speed you can use and still avoid motion blur.

This is why shooting indoor subjects at close range would work a lot better with a wide angle, large aperture lens than a semi-telephoto.

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Bedivere
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PostSat Nov 09, 2019 3:53 pm 
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Backpacker Joe wrote:
Im coming from a film background so I always try and keep my ISO as low as reasonably achievable.

I used to shoot film too but it still makes sense to keep ISO as low as possible because even with today's sensors which are very good at low light, lower ISOs still mean better color saturation and less noise.

With my D7200 noise becomes noticeable when pixel-peeping at ISOs greater than 200.  It really doesn't usually affect the finished product until ISOs get above 400 but that depends on the light.  Shadows start getting pretty noisy above ISO 800.  Color saturation also gets noticeably worse above that point.  Still, I've gotten good results all the way up to ISO 6400 in some situations but I sure never want to shoot that high if I don't have to as often the noise or losses in highlight details become unacceptable.

Landscape shooting on a tripod is a whole different world than shooting moving subjects indoors.

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Damian
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PostSat Nov 09, 2019 8:16 pm 
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I'm from BPJ's era.  I used to think ISO 400 (Kodak Tri-X) was really fast.  But with today's lenses and sensors very reasonable sharpness and grain can be achieved with ISO in the thousands providing awesome versitility.  I find I rarely use a flash anymore, even indoors with low light.
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