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Backpacker Joe
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PostFri Nov 08, 2019 11:54 am 
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Everybody's different. I shoot mostly landscapes.  Generally Im hand shooting.  Remember Im using AV mode with allows me to control my depth of field and the camera handles shutter speed.  In that environment (radical conditions not withstanding) I shoot F8 at ISO 400.  That compensates for any shake with my hands.  If Im using a tripod I set it to ISO 50.  Now as conditions change, i.e. I walk into some dark woods or it gets really cloudy I might up the ISO to 800 or 1200, but first Ill see if what Im shooting can benefit from a depth of field change.  If I can go from 8.0 down to 5.6 (letting in more light) without effecting my image Ill chose that before moving my ISO up.  Remember, the higher your ISO the more grain is possible on your image.  Now In reality with todays digital cameras that really isn't an issue until you're up in the thousands.  Im coming from a film background so I always try and keep my ISO as low as reasonably achievable.

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awilsondc
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PostFri Nov 08, 2019 9:16 pm 
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iron wrote:
in the menu under iso sensitivity settings:
auto ISO: ON
maximum: 6400
minimum shutter speed: auto

i guess i need to adjust the min shutter speed? will aperture priority then cap my max end of the f/ since my iso and shutter speed are capped?

I'm going to guess you need to set the minimum shutter speed to what you don't want it to go below.  1/60 perhaps.  Leave ISO on auto.  Set maximum to 6400 (or what ever you prefer). Shoot in aperture priority mode.

What should happen is the camera will first shoot with as fast of a shutter speed as it can with ISO 100.  If it needs more light, the shutter speed will be reduced up until the minimum limit you set (1/60 in my example) The camera will then switch to raising the ISO instead of lowering the shutter speed any further.

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Damian
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PostFri Nov 08, 2019 10:43 pm 
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awilsondc wrote:
The camera will then switch to raising the ISO instead of lowering the shutter speed any further.†

This is not how my Canon RP works.  The camera will violate the lower shutter speed limit once max ISO limit is reached in Aperture Priority mode.  It will never increase ISO above the limit you set.  Maybe this is not how they all do it.
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awilsondc
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PostSat Nov 09, 2019 1:22 pm 
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Damian wrote:
This is not how my Canon RP works.† The camera will violate the lower shutter speed limit once max ISO limit is reached in Aperture Priority mode.† It will never increase ISO above the limit you set.† Maybe this is not how they all do it.

Sounds like a reasonable thing for a camera to do IMO.  First try lowering the shutter speed to its set limit.  Still need more light?  Increase ISO until you reach the set limit.  What then?  Leave it underexposed?  It makes sense to go back to shutter speed to get the right exposure.  With a lower shutter speed you still might get a good exposure.  Go above the ISO limit and the photo is garbage if the noise is too bad.

I think my Sony does the same thing though, goes back to lowering the shutter speed once the ISO is maxed but I'm not 100% certain of that.  I use max ISO of 6400 and min SS of 1/60.
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Bedivere
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PostSat Nov 09, 2019 4:49 pm 
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Indoor cell phone shots are being done at much lower equivalent shutter speeds than 1/100, and at wide apertures and high ISOs.

I shoot indoors quite a bit and my go-to lens on my camera is my 16-85 f3.5-5.6.  I set the aperture to the minimum, which will end up being 3.5 at 16mm and 5.6 at 85mm.  For band shoots at small venues I will sometimes rent a 24mm f1.4 and set the aperture to f2.0 or f2.8.  I have an APS-C sensor though, the 35mm would be a better choice on an FX sensor.

i never use 1/100 shutter speed as that will force the ISO up too high and isn't necessary for any subject I've encountered.  With VR enabled, shooting down to 1/30 almost always produces good results.  For subjects that are stationary or people just sitting around, 1/15 will even get the job done most of the time.  Occasionally I've needed to go as high as 1/60 but that starts to push the ISO up pretty high which introduces noise and reduces dynamic range.

I have a D7200 so the menu should be similar to your D800.  I googled and came up with this image for a D800 auto ISO menu which is slightly different than mine but the main ingredients are there and are the same.


Set the "ISO sensitivity" to the camera's minimum value.
Set "Auto ISO sensitivity control" to ON
Set "Maximum sensitivity" to whatever you can tolerate.  6400 is as high as I go on my camera but the D800 may produce better results at higher ISOs.
Set "Minimum shutter speed" to the lowest value you can generally get decent results with.  For indoors in decent lighting I usually go with 1/30.

If you're not shooting with a flash, which I almost never do, the setting for that can be ignored.

Now, with the camera in A mode it will keep the ISO as low as possible and shoot at 1/30 unless conditions are bright enough that it can increase the shutter speed at the minimum specified ISO.  If the scene is so dark that the maximum ISO is reached and you still can't get a decent exposure, the camera will override the minimum shutter speed and shoot slower.

If 1/30 is producing pics with motion blur (fast moving subjects) then use a faster minimum shutter speed.  that will just force the camera to use a higher ISO at whatever aperture you have set.

Cell phones have the equivalent of pretty wide angle lenses and large apertures. Think something like a 16mm f1.8 lens.  Keep in mind that the wider the angle of the lens the wider the aperture you can use and still get good DoF *and* the slower shutter speed you can use and still avoid motion blur.

This is why shooting indoor subjects at close range would work a lot better with a wide angle, large aperture lens than a semi-telephoto.

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Bedivere
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PostSat Nov 09, 2019 4:53 pm 
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Backpacker Joe wrote:
Im coming from a film background so I always try and keep my ISO as low as reasonably achievable.

I used to shoot film too but it still makes sense to keep ISO as low as possible because even with today's sensors which are very good at low light, lower ISOs still mean better color saturation and less noise.

With my D7200 noise becomes noticeable when pixel-peeping at ISOs greater than 200.  It really doesn't usually affect the finished product until ISOs get above 400 but that depends on the light.  Shadows start getting pretty noisy above ISO 800.  Color saturation also gets noticeably worse above that point.  Still, I've gotten good results all the way up to ISO 6400 in some situations but I sure never want to shoot that high if I don't have to as often the noise or losses in highlight details become unacceptable.

Landscape shooting on a tripod is a whole different world than shooting moving subjects indoors.

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Damian
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PostSat Nov 09, 2019 9:16 pm 
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I'm from BPJ's era.  I used to think ISO 400 (Kodak Tri-X) was really fast.  But with today's lenses and sensors very reasonable sharpness and grain can be achieved with ISO in the thousands providing awesome versitility.  I find I rarely use a flash anymore, even indoors with low light.
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Bosterson
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PostSat Nov 09, 2019 9:31 pm 
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iron wrote:
i'm kind of amazed that with a FF camera, the ISO still needs to be that high to get an okay indoor shot.

FF has nothing to do with exposure. You might want to get a light meter and just play around with it to see how light levels vary. (Illumination is inversely proportional to the square of the distance from the light source.) The correct exposure is only the product of ISO, shutter speed, and aperture. FF only allows you to use higher ISOs with less noise and better colors, because the sensor (and thus the pixels) is bigger.

But again, you have a f/2.8 zoom. There's no reason to be shooting at f/5 indoors.

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Bosterson
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PostSat Nov 09, 2019 10:34 pm 
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iron wrote:
FF should be letting in considerably more light than a phone or a crop sensor, therefore allowing for lower ISO, faster shutter, etc.

The only things "letting in" light are shutter speed, aperture, and ISO. FF only affects the apparent depth of field of a given focal length, and the pixel pitch (which affects noise). FF does not affect exposure. The exposure value for a given amount of ambient light is the same however big your sensor/sheet of film/whatever is.

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Damian
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PostSat Nov 09, 2019 10:57 pm 
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iron wrote:
i do notice that in darker spots, the min shutter speed of 1/100 is overridden, so that kind of defeats the purpose of this feature

Not really.  Assuming you are in Aperature Priority mode, the camera will attempt to respect the minimum shutter speed you have selected until it reaches the highest ISO you have also selected.  Then, if the exposure triangle is still inadequate to support the available light, it will only then violate your minimum shutter speed.  I'm sure the camera feels guilty doing this, but it is making this choice reluctantly as opposed to providing you with an underexposed image and having you punish the camera.  It's doing the best it can  wink.gif .
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Damian
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PostSun Nov 10, 2019 8:53 am 
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Seems the designers figured that if you are using a semi-automatic mode like Aperture Priority you are expecting a properly exposed shot and are willing to accept big brother intervening if necessary.

But I understand your feelings.  Iíve had some disagreements with the logic my camera uses.  But every time it refuses to change.  As cameras get even more complicated I expect there to be theropy sessions for photographers and their cameras.
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joker
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PostSun Nov 10, 2019 12:42 pm 
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Bosterson wrote:
iron wrote:
FF should be letting in considerably more light than a phone or a crop sensor, therefore allowing for lower ISO, faster shutter, etc.

The only things "letting in" light are shutter speed, aperture, and ISO. FF only affects the apparent depth of field of a given focal length, and the pixel pitch (which affects noise). FF does not affect exposure. The exposure value for a given amount of ambient light is the same however big your sensor/sheet of film/whatever is.

From a "what it takes to get a properly exposed image" this is true, but it's also true that  larger sensor sites pull in more photons and will thus tend to have higher signal:noise ratios, and thus better low light performance (which you mention with respect to noise, but my point being that  this is due in part  to  "letting  more light in" and also  due to less  electrical-cross-talk as I understand it).
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Bedivere
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PostMon Nov 11, 2019 11:30 pm 
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It's documented that the camera will override the minimum shutter speed if max ISO is reached and the image will be underexposed.  If you know that's what it will do, I don't see the problem.

If you don't want your shutter speed to change, put the camera in M.  You can then set your own aperture and shutter speed and they will not change.  With auto ISO on the camera will vary ISO to achieve proper exposure as far as it can but it will not exceed the maximum ISO set in the menu.

I just shot a friend's 25th anniversary celebration inside a pretty dim banquet room last night.  I decided I'd rather have dark shots than blurry ones so set auto ISO to allow a maximum of 6400 and then set the aperture to 3.5 @ 16mm (it will vary with focal length to a value of f5.6 @ 85mm) and shutter speed to 1/30 and started shooting.  Most of the shots came out pretty good.

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