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whoami
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PostTue Nov 05, 2019 6:45 pm 
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I've seen them near the summit of Teneriffe multiple times.

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BlameTheDogz
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PostThu Nov 07, 2019 11:53 am 
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Saw a goat on the Si Haystack ridge on Wednesday.

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striving to stand like mountain yet flow like water, and make the dogs happy
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puzzlr
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PostFri Nov 08, 2019 7:37 pm 
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Lots of info on the relocated goats in this WDFW report

Quote:
On June 18, 2018, after years of planning and extensive public review, the regional director of the U.S. National Park Service signed a Record of Decision, authorizing the beginning of a plan to remove mountain goats (Oreamnos americanus) from Olympic National Park (as well as adjacent portions of the Olympic National Forest). For the first few years of this work, the approved plan calls for most mountain goats to be captured live and transported to staging areas on the Olympic Peninsula where they would formally become the responsibility of the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW). From these staging areas, mountain goats would then be transported to pre-selected staging areas in the North Cascades, and then brought to release locations where they would be returned to the wild.


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Cyclopath
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PostFri Nov 08, 2019 8:30 pm 
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They can use my garden as a staging area.  I promise to name every goat that comes through.
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Vertec
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PostTue Nov 12, 2019 9:23 am 
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Slugman wrote:
I donít think capturing them, etc, improved their attitudes.

They weren't 'native' to the Olympic Peninsula, but were 'introduced' there about 100-ish (?) years ago.  At least one hiker fatality made the news about ten years ago and may have contributed to the "bad press" about their 'demeanor'.  I wonder if the Olympic animals are now somewhat different than the native Cascade herds due to subtle adaptations of living in a different environment over those generations (yup, the game is "survival of the fittest").  Seems behavioral adaptations would appear early if they contributed to breeding success in a different environment (at least earlier than physical traits - e.g. longer horns to survive different predation).  And, will any such adaptations now breed into the Cascade herd (yup, see above)?  Maybe this will create an aggressive variation of franken-goat?

In any case, expect a spike in cougar population due to an increased food source, which will be followed by more reports of emaciated cougar 'incidents' as the food source 'adjusts' down to whatever the environment will sustain.  Fun fact: more food for mom = more kittens.  But if future generations of kittens can't take down goats, they will starve.

Welcome to another episode of "Man's Mad Science Nature Experiments".  We have a seat in the test tube!

BTW, it's not the first goat episode.  Some federal idiot got the stupid idea that hazing goats would instill a tendency for them to avoid humans.  But it only made them more aggressive toward hikers.  Make sure your defense attorney looks this up if you ever need to knock one over in self defense (and get caught).

But maybe the goat is just checking for mail, hoping to get a letter from home  dizzy.gif

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coldrain108
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PostTue Nov 12, 2019 2:49 pm 
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BlameTheDogz wrote:
Saw a goat on the Si Haystack ridge on Wednesday.

I saw goats on the Si haystack in 1991 - quite a few of them actually.  .

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"The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil, but by those who watch and do nothing"  - Albert Einstein
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BlameTheDogz
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PostTue Nov 12, 2019 7:48 pm 
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I mentioned this to a friend who grew up in North Bend and she said she used to frequently see goats on that ridge with binoculars from town. Nice to know they have a decent history there, thank you!

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snowshoeman
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PostTue Nov 12, 2019 8:34 pm 
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This summer on McClellan Butte trail. Quite unworried by my presence.

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coldrain108
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PostWed Nov 13, 2019 12:12 pm 
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BlameTheDogz wrote:
I mentioned this to a friend who grew up in North Bend and she said she used to frequently see goats on that ridge with binoculars from town. Nice to know they have a decent history there, thank you!

It is good that they are being removed form a place they didn't belong - ONP.  I'm not sure if moving them elsewhere is the right plan or not.  But yeah, I've seen them in the Si area for a while now, that hike in 1991 was my first hike after moving back to the area.  I thought it was great to see them in their natural environment.

I've had a few unpleasant run-ins with them in the Olympics.  A herd of about 10 moved into our already set-up camp and there was a HUGE male with a collar, both ears tagged, spray paint on his side and a big set of swinging dingles along with long ,sharp, pointy horns.  He was chasing the smaller males who would blindly run to escape his wrath.  If we were in their way we would get trampled or gored. We hid behind trees until they left.  Glad our tent didn't get messed with.

Another time they invaded the camp again and we saw what they were after - pee.  There were fresh avalanche lillies every where, and anywhere that people had pissed off the side of the trail the flowers and all other plant life was destroyed as they gobbled down everything with pee on it.  When possible, I pee on their crap piles so they can eat sh## if they want the pee.  Best to pee right in the middle of the trail.


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"The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil, but by those who watch and do nothing"  - Albert Einstein
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Mike Collins
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PostThu Nov 14, 2019 7:33 am 
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coldrain108 wrote:
Best to pee right in the middle of the trail.

It is best to pee on rocks. I was four feet away from a marmot who was eating mouthful after mouthful of dirt from a trail. I haven't seen goats eat dirt but they likely do as their craving is so strong.
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Cyclopath
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PostThu Nov 14, 2019 8:59 am 
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This is why I carry 10 pounds of Himalayan pink salt on every hike!
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Brushwork
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PostSun Nov 17, 2019 11:09 pm 
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But what  do you carry for the fairies? Surely you bring something for them...

(Meant to quote the post above oops)

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Cyclopath
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PostMon Nov 18, 2019 10:11 pm 
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Bread and cake, milk in a shiny thimble, a faerie door.

https://faeriemagick.com/faeries-likes-and-dislikes/
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kevperro
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PostFri Nov 22, 2019 4:06 pm 
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I was a mile down the ridge when that hiker was killed in ONP.    I had been past that goat several weeks before and he was a mean ornery critter.   For the people joking about it they hadn't seen that goat.    He was massive.... big and mean.    He was an intimidating animal.

The males are obviously naturally aggressive when they get to breeding age.   They fight over territory-females and that one in particular showed no signs of fearing humans.   Just the opposite.
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DigitalJanitor
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PostFri Nov 22, 2019 5:11 pm 
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Years ago I read a book by a biologist who was trying to do some extended studies of goat behavior in Glacier NP. At that time he was doing his field studies not a lot was known about where they went, what they did, how they interacted, etc.

My recollection was that they spend a lot of time beating on one another- mostly horns-to-rump, they even have a butt pad built in to survive it- to enforce their social pecking order. The biologist wound up getting horned badly and effectively punted down to the lowest level where he was dodging even small kids trying to push him around.

My takeaway was that they're remarkable survivors of extreme environments, but not at all defenseless and best admired at a wary distance.

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